Dude your famous man! I hope I can help you out as much as your helping me XD

Any way to get card advantage in green and white I think you should at least attempt to take advantage of, you know?

And once Gatecrash comes out, two of the Golgari Guildgate s will definitely switch to Orzhov Guildgate. Fixing mana in this deck is weird, I have more white symbols than green but I need more green to play Arbor Elf and card:Avacyn's Pilgrim. I always seem to get more white than I want and not enough green, but when I shift the ratios I suddenly stop getting white mana. I'll definitely be fine-tuning the mana base for a while.

shocklands would help because you have arbor elf and anything with the word forest is untapped....

maybe you might have to break out the big buck and invest in some?

Probably, yeah. -_-;

Also increasing devotion is great in this deck because of the +1/+1 vigilance enchantments AND the +3/+3 enchantments you are running. Perhaps taking a couple of the larger costed spells out and adding a few of these can really give you a kill condition!

The case against Increasing Devotion is that 1) I will never populate a 1/1 unless it has flying (even then I won't often) and 2) that card is a too expensive for this deck. It is a 5-mana set of chump blockers. It is highly unlikely that I will have cast both Collective Blessing and Increasing Devotion . I am going for quality of tokens more than quantity.

On that same note, lets say you casted virtue on turn two... for five mana you're getting 10 power and toughness that you can populate, not to mention the card has flashback and you can only make them bigger as time goes on (more virtues or your other +3/+3 enchantment.

I also see where you're coming from, so if you don't enjoy playing that style, simply sont do it :D

I'm going to try replacing Eyes in the Skies with card:Druid's Deliverance for now and see how that works out.

I think mathematically you may want to run 1x or 2x Parallel Lives instead of 1 or 2 of the Growing Ranks or even Collective Blessing . I could be wrong, but here's my reasoning:

Parallel Lives and Growing Ranks costs roughly the same (CMC 4).

If you get a token at all, Parallel Lives immediately gives you double that many. You have plenty of things that will generate a token (it looks like roughly 18 sources). The way I see it, each Growing Ranks gives you one more token each upkeep (in which case it has summoning sickness for a turn), but Parallel Lives immediately gives you 2x the tokens. Don't replace them all, of course, because you need both...

-4x Golgari Guildgate , +4x Overgrown Tomb or Woodland Cemetery right? Also, Sunpetal Grove and more Temple Garden (I assume you're just in the process of acquiring those).

I was originally running Parallel Lives , but it was kind of messing with the way I play the deck. Here's why:

Say the first three turns I spend making tokens and/or dropping Arbor Elf s. On turn four, when I drop Growing Ranks , it has something to act on and then will help me continually for the rest of the game.

If I had started with that same hand but replaced Growing Ranks with Parallel Lives , I would not be guaranteed that same benefit. IF I did all that and then dropped parallel lives, I then would have to wait for more token producers to get any benefit. Also, my mind (which wants to make the most out of Parallel Lives ) usually tells me to not create ANY tokens until the enchantment is down, which usually screws me over. The only situation in which I would rather have Parallel Lives than Growing Ranks is when I plan on casting and/or flashing back Lingering Souls . Basically I'm usually only making one token at a time and I'd rather have the inevitability that Growing Ranks gives me than the burst of speed from Parallel Lives .

Also, yeah, if I ever get better lands they are so going in here.

I don't think Eyes in the Skies should be here. Even though it does exactly what you want, it's pretty expensive for what it does. Also, if you had Growing Ranks and Eyes in the Skies in your hand, which would you play? Obviously, Growing Ranks would be the better call, meaning Eyes in the Skies would just be taking up space. Or what if you had Eyes in the Skies , Growing Ranks , and card:Trostani, Selesnya's Voice all in your hand on Turn 4? Realistically, you wouldn't get to play Eyes in the Skies until Turn 6, and by then you'll have Armada Wurm (if you're lucky) or Collective Blessing , which could cause you to wait until turn 7 to cast it and I doubt it would be needed then.

I would replace Eyes in the Skies with Rootborn Defenses and replace Rootborn Defenses in your sideboard with Sundering Growth .

Also, you should know that WotC aimed to slow the game down with this block coming out. There is not much draw card mechanic for any color. Mentor of the Meek is good (as you previously mentioned) but if you have two Intangible Virtue or a Collective Blessing out, then you no longer have any 1/1 creatures to activate it. So, while it is a good card for early game, I think you would have more important 3drops, plus it could become obsolete later game.

I have a deck that has a similar concept except it's based around Angels and is not very good at all. The only thing I could do to remedy some of the problems of W/G was to splash in a touch of blue, but even that is hardly a fix and causes its own problems. Still, blue allowed me to add Geist of Saint Traft , Curiosity (for draw card), and Ghostform (targeting Wayfaring Temple ).

Here it is, if you want to look at it: Bant Angel Tokens. Again, it's not a good deck at all but might give you some ideas IF you decide to splash blue, which I wouldn't necessarily recommend. More or less, we just have to accept that deck rushing is not what it used to be back in the Mirrodin block. You could, also, add some Chromatic Lantern s again that's a pretty poor substitute but it could allow you to add a few blue cards without having to add Islands, as well as allow you to Flashback Lingering Souls

Cheers.

Thanks for the analysis ErroneousDylan. Actually, if I had the choice between Growing Ranks and Eyes in the Skies , I would probably go for the immediate benefit of Eyes and then drop the enchantment next turn. I also don't draw my 6-drops that often, since there's only three of them.

However, I do see the problems with the card. I had tried to run card:Druid's Deliverance in its place (not for long, I'll admit) but it just felt off to me. Deliverance is a combat trick, and I tend to want wait until I get the benefit of both effects before using it. Eyes, on the other hand, can be used at the earliest opportunity to increase my army size. Also, 4 mana for 4 power (standard use is to create a bird and populate a centaur) is not a bad deal, especially when some of that is flying. It only gets better when I get the chance to populate a 5/5 wurm or 8/8 elemental AND also get a flying chump blocker and/or buffed evasion damage dealer to boot. The value of having flying tokens (and Eyes in the Skies represents 4/8 of cards that produce flyers) is really important, and the chance to get flying in addition to something big makes it better in my mind than say Midnight Haunting . I really think the card is a lot better than most people give it credit for.

That being said I am already thinking of plenty of situations in which I'd rather have card:Druid's Deliverance... I don't know. I'll have to test out the other options more. But Rootborn Defenses is definitely staying the sideboard to be swapped in when I face heavy removal. And Sundering Growth is already in there. :P

Finally, the Golgari Guildgate s let me flashback Lingering Souls .

Thanks again for commenting, and I'd love to look at your deck.

it may seem odd to you, but you should consider throwing in Vault of the Archangel . I recommend it in any deck with the proper mana base and enough creatures. It's a gamechanger and all it will cost you is a land slot in your deck. I would also recommend beefing up your land base with more dual lands to help the colors in your deck draw more consistently, especially with you splashing black the way you do.

Land is now idealized. I had Sunpetal Grove s in there for about a minute, but they were always showing up in my opening hand when I really just needed an untapped forest.

I'm trying to make a similar token deck. Based on your current build, you may want to consider replacing 2 of the Wayfaring Temple s with 2 Geist-Honored Monk s. It may mess with your mana base, but it will increase the token production and you'll still get that bad-A x/x creature alongside them (with vigilance I might add).

Can you explain me your perfect play?

I think:

Turn 1: Forest + card:Avacyn's Pilgrim or Arbor Elf

Turn 2: Plains or Forest + card:Avacyn's Pilgrim or Arbor Elf (again) + Call of the Conclave

Turn 3: Plains or Forest + what is your perfect play here?

Did you think about Rancor ? It would be great with Wayfaring Temple (Trample, damage, populate!)

And what about Farseek ?

Okay, I'll start by addressing the card suggestions.

Yes I had Rancor in here at first for Wayfaring Temple . I found it unnecessary. Basically, Temple doesn't need to hit the enemy; instead he forces them to block and thus lets me kill their creatures and lets my smaller (but no less deadly) threats through. Second, Rancor is next to useless when cast on any token other than the 8/8's. I really much prefer a good Intangible Virtue .

As far as Farseek goes, I'm pretty happy with my ramp as it stands now.

It's hard for me to nail down an ideal play for this deck, largely because it is so flexible. I'm pretty much happy playing any tokens as soon as I can, and then boosting them up with enchantments. If I had to nail 1 or 2 plays down it would be the following:

Strategy 1: Flyers First

T1: Forest, card:Avacyn's Pilgrim/Arbor Elf

T2: Forest/Plains, Lingering Souls

T3: Forest/Plains/Isolated Chapel /Woodland Cemetery , Growing Ranks /(Intangible Virtue +something else)

T4: Forest/Plains/Isolated Chapel /Woodland Cemetery , Wayfaring Temple , flashback Lingering Souls

T5: Whatever land, Collective Blessing

T1: Forest, card:Avacyn's Pilgrim/Arbor Elf

T2: Forest/Plains, Wayfaring Temple

T3: Land, Intangible Virtue , Call of the Conclave

T4+: Start populate engine by various means

I was looking for spells to add into my Selesnya Deck. I really like your sideboard ! Although I think you are right about heavy removal being a large enemy, including lots of detentions spheres slowing play down. Everybody seems to much prefer Avacyn's Pilgrim over Arbor Elf.

Okay well I think you should use card:Cathars' Crusade as a maybe board. I'll have a look at your strategy of only using 7 cards with the populate ability. I generally lean heavy on populate and Cathars' Crusade is really good with this. Also, if you went to a pre-release (as I did) then you could also use Restoration Angel. Easy drop, and helps against those detentions!

@agjwilsonThanks! The sideboard has been pretty tough to put together, since I'm not really used to using them.

I like to run both card:Avacyn's Pilgrim and Arbor Elf . :P

To me, card:Cathars' Crusade runs into the same problem as Parallel Lives in that by the time it comes out I won't be making tokens as often as in the early turns (unless I have growing ranks out). Besides, when I have 5 mana I usually want to spend it to flip a Grove of the Guardian .

I guess the crusade would be more useful if I ran more populate effects. I used to use more populate, but I usually found myself with populate cards in hand but no tokens to use them on. So, over time, I gradually swapped out the populate cards for straight token generators. I'm pretty happy with the ratio I have now, since my biggest populator (Growing Ranks ) is re-usable.

I'm not really sure what you're talking about with Restoration Angel , since A) it's not in RTR so it wouldn't have shown up in the Pre-release and B) you can't flicker tokens. Did you perhaps mean Angel of Serenity ?

Restoration Angel, Yeah, its just a personal thing to counter some nuisances. But yes it came out in a pre-release. But it was the Avacyn Restored pre-release I believe. Never mind though, thanks again for posting your findings and I will enjoy re-editing my own deck.

Garruk, Primal Hunter is awesome in g/w decks with tokens and populate!

He makes 3/3 beasts and draws cards.

Definitely add a 4th Intangible Virtue instead of a Growing Ranks

Hey, I run a (sort of) similar deck that you can find at deck:gw-killing-machine if you want a few tips.

I have tried to play Collective Blessing before, and it just isn't fast enough for standard. Way too much of a mana cost. I would take out the 2 of them and throw in 2x Parallel Lives . Populate + A dumb-downed Doubling Season = Ohh yeah.I would also recommend finding room for a Garruk, Primal Hunter , Increasing Devotion , Thragtusk , and definitely 4x Loxodon Smiter . He may not be a token/token generator, but he is a Selesnya staple that you lack.

Oh, also: Too little creatures. Take out 2 each of the Mana dorks, and throw more Armada Wurm s in.

I don't know what I am doing wrong.. I have a deck just like yours and it doesn't work =/..where I play FNM people just use Thragtusk and Silverblade Palladin and I have no deffense against it becouse I ran out of tokens.. I really think that Token decks don't work very well.. it takes too much time to get a relyable Populate basis.At least a lot of time when you are fighting people that doesnt have a budget limit for deck construction. Until the Innistrad block exits standart I am relying in Arrest, OR and Pacifism to hold down those creatures and build the game. That way my deck became more of a "control" deck trying to lock up the enemies creatures and hit him with buffed tokens and creatures. I actually took out most of the tokens and started to rely more ate creatures.. I dont know.. Selesnya seemed like a perfect deck and for me it was desapointing.

Anyway! I really liked your decks and your posts really helped me, thanks Timekeeper !

I'm sorry to hear all that ToniMarino, and I understand your frustration. To be honest, I don't see a lot of FNM's, as I don't really get the opportunity to do so. Most decks I have here on TappedOut are thought experiments, ways for me to flesh out an idea and see how it works. However, I am hoping to play competitively more in the future, so I am always happy to hear how similar decks do in tournaments.

I'm glad you enjoy my decks, I do too. :P I completely understand the frustration of putting together an idea that you just know will be awesome... only to have it be less than competitively viable. However, if you are playtesting and adjusting your decks accordingly (which is what it sounds like you are doing), you will eventually reach something that is both fun and effective. Don't give up. Every struggle you have will make you a better player and a better deck builder. Don't be afraid to try new things and work hard to make them work, but at the same time let the deck do what it wants to do (yes, I know that sounds weird). A large part of creation is discovery, and if your deck looks nothing like you originally intended, that just means you have learned something about the game and yourself. So keep at it, you're doing great!