with the number of Thassa's Oracles in the current meta, any thoughts on running Trickbind?

anomalous_

Go away LMAO aklsdjfkalsdf

killbobbuilder

Honestly, that's a consideration that I have been thinking about for quite a while. Angel's Grace has unironically been a good answer to stop opponents from winning-- even when they have sculpted their hand full of counterspells and have Boseiju out.

My immediate thought is that Trickbind is a purely defensive card, which is something I'm not a huge fan of. Something like even Force of Negation can be used to protect our own flash on opponents turns. But the metagame may have evolved where Trickbind can really put in a lot of work. For now, I'm mostly carefully thinking about the card and will consider it depending on how the metagame adapts. I'm honestly never happy with slotting in a one-shot defensive card though to be honest though.

I like tamiyo collector of tales in my list. Good regrowth spell with a relevant enchantment attached. Also the uptic works really well with sylvan library, top, vamp and mystical tutor, also just other random cantrips and such.

I appreciate your application of tappedout syntax. This document is a valuable tool to many, and I think you’ve done well with it. I will work to get my descriptions to this level of concise detail.

bruis81

Interesting! I can see how Tamiyo can be great for grindier metas that can't really challenge her board presence. Personally don't really think it's the greatest card for me unfortunately though. Just too much mana and people will definitely attack her in my meta ://

tarkington

Thanks so much! I'm really glad that you liked the documentation!

I'm actually looking to update the whole primer after April 20th (the Commander RC ban announcement) depending on what they ban. Fingers crossed that they ban flash, but if they don't-- I'll update my primer to talk about flash hulk combos.

Now that Flash is banned, do you see the deck returning to ISOREV or will you take it in another direction?

Czweig

Yeah I will most likely be returning to IsoRev. I'll also be taking out some hulk pieces and putting in Fierce Guardianship.

Thanks for checking in with me so soon, I'll be sure to try making an update post talking about the upcoming changes soon! Just finalizing the last few slots I want for the list is all.

With Flash banned will you finally cave in and play Sharknado?

Broke: 1 spell cast instant speed threats Woke: 0 spell cast instant speed threats that cycle

Really great deck and primer. I love Tasigur and have had a Tasigur deck built in one form or another since his release. This is one of the best I’ve seen. Currently I am running more combo focused Hermit Druid/consultation deck but am kind of wanting to go back to a more control oriented build much like the one you have here.

Two questions for You:

What would be your thoughts on excluding the basic sorcery cantrips (Ponder /Preordain) in favor of more answers? I find that once they are in my graveyard that is all I get back from Tas activations barring urgent political plays.

Second, what are your thoughts on Life from the Loam in Tasigur control? It fuels his delve, guarantees land drops and just generally feels like an engine with him. I’ve had some success with it in the past and wondered if you think it is viable in the current state of the format?

Thanks!

AstralCodex

GO AWAY YOU MEMER aksjdflaksdf

Hello Ash3n,

I've been in the process of rewriting my primer so my apologies for responding late. Thanks so much for the compliments, they are very much appreciated!! I'm very glad you enjoy the list! I hope my response to your question can give you a better understanding for the direction of this deck. Thanks!

1) I'll admit that I have thought about cutting some of the cantrips before in the past. I used to also believe they weren't the greatest value plays and that we could be doing something better. But Sleepy helped convince me on justifying keeping them. Personally, I think the cantrips provide a very big dig to allow us to be flexible with what we want to do. It can help us dig into our combo pieces or it can help dig us into a value piece. It represents a lot of flexibility in a single card for only blue mana. It's hard to say that interaction / value / combo pieces would be better in place of a cantrip because the cantrip itself just represents so much potential. It can help you dig for what you want, but in the worst case scenario-- you can shuffle or bottom the cards you don't want (essentially fixing your draws for the next 2-3 turns as well). I honestly don't think preordain / ponder are the worst cards to keep getting back at all-- they would help you dig every single turn to ensure that you have the best top decks in the pod.

2) I've tried Life from the Loam a lot before in the past, and the most I can say is that I think it's too slow in most of the metas imo. It just takes a lot to set up and get value out of. Additionally it requires multiple dead slots within your deck-- also making the engine pretty slot intensive.

For example, Life from the Loam just getting back fetch lands every turn instead of drawing a card is honestly probably pretty bad. Life from the loam getting back a cycle land and fetch lands requires you to spend 1G + cycle so that you can hit consistent land drops. Only when you have Life from the Loam + 2 cycle will you have actual card advantage-- but I find that both hard to assemble and a lot of mana to invest every turn. I really think we can find better value engines for less deck space that are more mana efficient.

I personally don't think there's a huge value in just randomly filling the cards in our graveyard. I can understand honestly if people are on Seasons Past or something-- but I don't actually see much value in filling my graveyard randomly. It does make things like Yawgmoth's will and noxious revival stronger within my list, but I don't put like a lot of value in that. I actually think randomly filling our graveyard actively starts making Tasigur activations much worse too.

I can definitely understand life from the loam package in a much slower shell or meta where like you consistently want to make land drops, but I personally think its a little bit too slow for my tastes.

I hope that was helpful!

To add on to Cinestra's points on Ponder/Preordain - they allow you to cast Tasigur earlier by filling your GY, and you can often delve them away.

Why isn't windfall in the mainboard, it puts cards in the graveyard for when you activate Tasigur and it also builds upon the Narset/Thief strategy

Draconic_Heaven

Good question! Unfortunately, I don't have a good answer LOL. I've been talking with a few others about having both Windfall and Timetwister, and I think its a very realistic inclusion.

It combos with Narset / Notion Thief / and even Consecrated Sphinx as essentially wincons. Fills the graveyard up like you mention for Tasigur. These are all amazing things. And there are great arguments for its inclusion.

Personally, I decided against a second wheel because I think I don't need to double down on wheel effects. I love using them early and I love using them to combo, but their usefulness wanes the farther you go into the game. So they just aren't great cards when you are looking to grind with Tasigur. I think having at least one is pretty necessary for Notion Thief / Notion Thief synergy-- but I'm not sold on having multiple personally (though I could change my stance later on).

You can certainly be more proactive with Tasigur or just hold the second wheel to combo with Narset, Notion Thief, or Consecrated sphinx for sure though. I don't mean to like try to dismiss the idea of Windfall at all, I think it's honestly a fantastic inclusion. It's just one I'm personally not on for reasons mentioned above.

Why not run Prismatic Vista?

ferdinandgrapefruit

Good question! I actually dont think prismatic vista is the worst suggestion, especially in a mana base with more basics. I actually quite like the idea of it in some metas.

I think the number one problem is that we rarely want to tutor up a basic on the first turn (unless you're anticipating an early blood moon or back to basics). We typically want to have as many colors availible to us as possible as early as possible in the early game so that we can be very flexible with our plays. Thus, I feel like it's more important to have a land that taps for two or more colors usually.

That being said, Prismatic vista still does provide some obvious advantages. An additional fetch will probably help cast Tasigur early more consistently. And you probably don't make too many sacrifices running a land that can fetch the basic you need.

I personally don't think the trade off is worth it, but I can understand people who do want to run it-- especially in metas where blood moon and back to basics is more common. I hope that answers your question!

Hi

I've been following your list for quite some time - I really like your build! :-) Im currently struggling a bit with the back-up win-con: Isorev. Would it make sense to run freed lines instead? Or is this combo too slow? Since Arbor Elf and Bloom Tender is already in the build, it wouldn't be more than one dead card. You could even add Neoform instead of eldritch to fetch something like Incubation Druid, Spellseeker (to support consultation lines) or maybe even Ilysian Caryatid if Tas is out on the field. Really interested to hear your thoughts as Im going back and forth between Isorev and Freed :-)

Marcioh

Hi, thanks so much! I'm very glad you've been liking the list.

As for the back-up win condition, I honestly don't feel super strongly about IsoRev. For me personally, I think it is the second best wincon after Consult Oracle-- but I don't really think it's miles better than the other options. Freed Tendies is more space efficient, but comes with the real cost of like being a worse wincon overall. The fact that you can essentially assemble IsoRev off out of nowhere and win makes it easier to assemble after something like Necropotence or Ad Naus.

So the pros and cons for each of the combos become pretty clear. IsoRev very clearly has worse card quality and potentially takes up more slots. However the wincon is much cleaner to assemble. Freed Tendies has a more compact combo, but it is awful to assemble.

For me personally, I think that not being able to assemble the combo when all of the pieces are in your hand is pretty bad. Like say you drew a bunch of cards off of necropotence or ad nauseum-- you cannot assemble the combo all in one turn because bloom tender needs to wait a turn of summoning sickness. I think the combo somewhat makes sense if you are consistently looking to make a bloom tender or Ilysian Caryatid (which I actually think is a pretty good card for Tasigur regardless of this freed tendies combo discussion)-- but there are times where you draw freed from the real and it just becomes a very dead card in your hand. When you have Freed from the Real in hand, you're looking for a tutor for Bloom Tender. And even after you tutor for Bloom Tender, it's going to take an entire turn before going for it.

So while I do appreciate the compact combo for Freed Tendies and the fact that it is potentially less slots than IsoRev, personally I do not think the combo is good enough because of the fact that it cannot be assembled all in one turn. However, I don't think its the worst combo-- I think you should really give it a shot and see how you like it for yourself after some testing. Perhaps Freed Tendies might be more valuable in grindy metas because card quality might be more important than the ability to quickly assemble a combo.

Hope this helps, thanks for the question!

Thank you for the quick feedback!! It totally makes sense - my list includes Ad Nauseam as well and I experienced not being able to pull off either freed or consultation lines after casting ad naus... which feels pretty bad.

I'm going to try both for some time in two diff. builds (freed without Naus), to see how they compare. What I've experienced so far is that I had trouble actually having enough dorks/rocks for Isorev in the early game, while the freed lines seemed to be slower but a little easier to assemble early on. No one expected an infinite mana outlet from Ilysian Caryatid so far. But then again I might be trying to push through early wins with a deck that shines in the mid/late game :-)

Can someone give me the rundown on why Eldritch Evolution makes the cut? the only line i can see being worthwile is to sac tasigur for seedborn muse, but even that kind of play doesnt seem to justify a card that seemingly does nothing in any other circumstance

Son-of-Mace

Eldritch Evolution is used in a variety of cases. One of the easiest base cases is turning Tasigur into a Consecrated Sphinx if you have nothing else going on. A well protected Consecrated Sphinx can easily just win the game on its own if you get your turn again.

You can also utilize Tasigur or any of your other creatures into significant creature components of other combos. One example is turning one of your creatures into a Thassa's Oracle when you have demonic consultation or tainted pact in hand. The other example is turning one of your creatures into Notion Thief and then wheeling. You can also turn one of your creatures into a Gilded Drake if needed.

I personally like Eldritch Evolution over Neoform since I feel like it is much more flexible and allows Tasigur to turn into a variety of targets.

Love your deck. Just wanna know if you have any thoughts on Harness Infinity?