Clay_Puppington, you missed -1 Conqueror's Flail and +1 Culling the Weak in your updated write-up.

Oh snap! Thank you, thank you! updated!

Great deck! I really enjoyed its look, however I do have some questions:

• If we want to race our opponents down as fast as possible what is the point of Sensei's Divining Top?

• I understand that whenever we have some extra mana flooding around we can use it on Jeweled Amulet, but, still, is it really a strong card in this deck?

Keep up the awesome work :)

Hey mate! Glad you popped in and took a look.

I had the Grenzo Discord Server have a chat about top for you, and assembled the thoughts. There are a handful of folks both for and against the card, so it comes down to a judgement use.

Pros:

• It draw's us a top deck tutor target (off imp seal and similar tutors)

• It give us a turn 1 play if we need it which can smooth out early turns

• It allows us to scope our top deck draw out

• It can draw a Ritual off the top of the pile on a Doomsday Kiki Line to allow a BBBB line, rather than a BBB+2 line.

• It adds to our Rock count for Opal

• It filters sub 3 card hands better than other filters.

Cons:

• It doesn't ramp us

• It doesn't tutor for us

• It filters 3+ card hands worse than other 1 mana filters

• It draws worse than other draw

• It has no real value in the t1-2 race

So, that's about our assembled list for the Pro/Cons of Top in Grenzo. Personally, I like top because it's only of the few cards we can run with the pure utility. The ability to use a 1 mana top of deck tutor, and then get it in our hand right away, converts all those 1 mana, 2 turn tutors, into what is essentially a 2 card tutor.

That it smooths out top deck draw is also very important early. That single mana ability can mean all the difference in drawing a ritual and winning, or drawing 2 more lands and not having a win for another 2-3 turns.

Finally, it serves as a minor ability to play under stax locks as we seek an answer in a deck that doesn't have a lot of ways to dig itself out.

Jeweled Amulet is a whole other beast. It's not the strongest. Not even close, and that it makes 1 mana every 2 turns, will almost constantly keep it on the chopping block.

It maintains it's place due to it's identical nature to cards like Blood Pet - they both essentially cost 1 mana, to make 1 mana a turn later (casting blood pet for B, then sacing it for B same turn, doesn't make a lot of sense).

While blood pet sticks around for it's inevitable mana production (the same as jeweled, as they have the same clock), Blood Pet stays around for it's Culling and Intent synergy (on top of it's single card value), Jeweled maintains the same situation. It's single card value is enough to maintain it's spot in the deck, but it's ability to mesh with Mox Opal and increase our coloured mana production keeps it's home.

However, cards like Blood Pet, Jeweled Amulet, Chromatic Sphere, and Overeager Apprentice, are just 1 card release (or new card discovery) away from losing their place in the deck. While individually they all offer something that we need by themselves (coloured black mana) and have synergy with other cards, they hold that fringe-playable landscape of knowing they'll be the first cards looked at to cut when new and stronger things come along that do what they do, better.

Thank you for your time!

This is a very very nice build. I build this and it surprise me because I can pull off the combo whatever my opponents do to Grenzo. However in my mete I think I would add Conqueror's Flail due to many removals and counterspell. Thanks for this.

Jinjakid Glad you liked it. I have flail on my recommended list of FLEX cards above as well, and I use it myself in one of my particular pods that loves to hold instant speed exile for mid-combo.

Conqueror's Flail was in here, but was cut for faster cards I believe.

Yes I saw it in the Flex Spots. How about the Amonkhet block?is there a card that we could add in here?the cycling lands can be fetch but i think its just too slow.

We've already ripped through the block and tried pretty much anything that seemed sort of usable.

Amonkhet wasn't great for Grenzo, and youll find the cards in the list are completely up to date.

Grenzo Brewing Squad has also made the slog through magiccards.info, and we've looked into almost every card in Red/Black/Colourless that has a cmc that we're willing to pay.

At this time, until there's a significant meta shift in other cEDH decks, or another block comes out, there's nothing really left to do with the deck other than tweak for individual metas.

How do you feel about Imp's Mischief? I prefer it over Burnout for its versatility. On our combo turn it works the same against blue counters, but it also helps us against removal and discard, among other things.

I was just wondering how to cast Doomsday with LED, since you have to discard your hand, which will presumably has DD in it.

You don't use Doomsday to cast LED, you use it to activate Grenzo.

Thank you, but that's not what I asked. I was asking how to cast Doomsday with LED, not about using Doomsday to cast LED.

I think you misunderstand what I said. You never use the mana from LED to cast Doomsday unless you're casting both from Graveyard with Yawgmoth's Will. The only other case is if you cast Wheel of Fortune and pop LED in response to add the mana to your pool before Wheel resolves, then you draw into Doomsday. The reason LED is in the list is because you can use the mana after you've cast Doomsday to activate/recast Grenzo.

Thank you. I understood that explaination.

Any updates on the list Clay?

Does Glorious End fit in here for those combos that are hard to stop simply by trying to remove a piece of there combo?

No City of Traitors?

I believe that this has been asked before, but how well would City of Traitors fit into this deck? If you want to rush Doomsday then it seems ok, but you know the deck better than I do, so I am sure there is some reason why it isn't in the deck.

I don't know if I'm dense or what, but...

How are you getting rid of the rest of your library? The Doomsday stack goes on top of your library, but you're using Grenzo to pull cards from the bottom of the stack. Wouldn't the rest of your library be in the way of that?

Doomsday exiles your library, other than the 5card stack

...So I'm dense. Got it. How did I miss that?

It's ok. Just remember this and be patient with someone in the future :)

Hey, what about Sadistic Sacrament over Praetor's Grasp? I know it's and that can be demanding for us, but being able to take out combo PIECES vs. a single piece could be very worthwhile. I'm gonna test it in my own build