Thank you for the tip. Like you guessed, I'm not using her because I'll rarely reach the 5 blue devotion, and without it I don't think she's worth the investment. What are your thoughts on a copy or two of Ahiok though? Now that card seems worth its price to me. :)
September 30, 2013 6:06 a.m.
In a Control deck, Thassa becoming a creature is probably something you don't actually want anyway, using her for scry along is worth the 3 mana investment.
As for Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
, she's great at what she does, but I feel like she does better with a deck that mills opponents, then draws more or ramps. So her better homes are Esper Control, or BUG Midrange. She fits into a solid Grixis Mill deck, but I feel she lacks when not built around.
September 30, 2013 6:13 a.m.
Thanks for the input. I guess for now I'll be replacing Jace, Architect of Thought with Steam Augury and Rogue's Passage instead of Thassa, God of the Sea as a poor man's way of making Master of Cruelties unblockable. I am wondering if adding a second or third copy of Jace, Memory Adept will be justified.
October 1, 2013 3:41 a.m.
Well he is a win condition, so a second one is relevant, but I don't think a third is.
October 1, 2013 3:50 a.m.
I'm also building Grixis. I run my Jace's in the sideboard because they seem better against against control decks, and fairly weak against aggro. I also prefer Rogue's Passage to Thassa because it sits in a land spot, meaning I don't use a spell for my unblockable effect, and it far harder to remove considering the large number of enchantment removal which is likely to be in sideboards for most of Theros.
The one thing I do want to know though, do you every find a shortage of burn to finish with? You only run four things that can deal direct damage after Master of Cruelties and 2 of those is Rakdos's Return which is quite expensive. I have 4x Magma Jet and 3x Rakdos's Return and even I find I occasionally do not have one in hand. Does the extra draw (I don't run Opportunity ) make up for this?
October 1, 2013 3:53 a.m.
I'd replace Opportunity with Inspiration . It's usually around turn 4 you're looking for more cards, and inspiration is faster and still at instant speed.
October 1, 2013 3:53 a.m.
Bestach - I usually keep may burn spells in my hand and wait for Master of Cruelties to do his thing, and then I burn for the win - with the extra draw I usually go through 2 burn spells in a game, and keep one as a finisher while casting the other - usually Rakdos's Return to disrupt my opponent. It's also important to note that this is not my only win condition, often Master of Cruelties simply defends me while Jace, Memory Adept mills (I used to run two, but I felt that the deck's curve was rather high).On the topic of Opportunity , I agree with Krakshot that turn 4-5 is my hardest and that's when extra cards are most needed, but I simply love Opportunity - it's like a Sphinx's Revelation without the lifegain, completely turns the game around. I have won around 75% of the games I have cast it.I like the idea of running Jace, Memory Adept in the sideboard against control decks, maybe I'll use the extra 2 copies there.
October 1, 2013 4:08 a.m.
Krakshot, I have to disagree about Counterflux being better than Psychic Strike - first of all it's harder to cast, but mostly I like Psychic Strike because it ruins the opponent's scry arrangements. :)
October 1, 2013 4:11 a.m.
Thats true, I hadn't though of that. I run 2x Dissolve and 2x Swan Song atm, mainly because I want to see if Swan Song is better or worse, but I hadn't really considered Psychic Strike in terms of scry...
In that case i prefer Steam Augury over Inspiration , and if you want draw I'd rather have the Augury. Its about numbers. You're always going to draw at least 2 cards if you want to, which makes it at least as good as Inspiration , but you also have the potential to draw 3, or even 4 cards if you play it right, meaning it could be as good as Opportunity . If you want 4 mana draw then I would up Steam Augury to 3-4x, rather than Inspiration
October 1, 2013 4:54 a.m.
Also, at the 3 drop spot I have Read the Bones , which is very underrated in my opinion - going through 4 cards at the cost of 3 mana in some cases. I have dropped one copie of Opportunity because I feel that 5 draw spells along with the 3 copies of Izzet Charm are more than enough.
October 1, 2013 5:06 a.m.
ZaphodBeblebrox says... #13
If your trying to balance between fighting aggro and control, Jace, Architect of Thought is your best option. It essentially shrinks the aggro field power while giving you insane card advantage against control. Don't forget about Far / Away ! In most instances, it 2-for-1s your opponent and can efficiently deal with resolved hexproof creatures. Would also sideboard some Pithing Needle s to deal with opposing planeswalkers or any other annoy permanents. As for Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver , she has been great in every matchup for me so far. Against aggro, your opponent has to invest several turns into killing her as she gets out of hand real fast and starts stealing powerful creatures.
For more ideas check out my deck, Vogon Poetry!
October 1, 2013 5:10 a.m.
Yeah Read the Bones seems really good. The main problem I have with it is in the same deck as Thoughtseize and Shock lands you can end up paying a lot of life. Against aggro this can really hurt, and I felt Thoughtseize was more valuable. Although for me it was Erebos, because his draw ability became really costly.
October 1, 2013 5:42 a.m.
Just for reference, this is my decklist:http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/grixis-control-theros-2/
October 2, 2013 7:51 a.m.
I invite all of you to my working Group about the best Grixis Control strategy
October 9, 2013 5:06 a.m.
SasukeUchiha says... #17
I don't know if it has been said but Aqueous Form is a cheap unblockable creature.
October 16, 2013 9:16 a.m.
Personally I prefer Rogue's Passage
. It seems expensive, but when it guarantees the win its usually worth it. People have been saying Thassa, God of the Sea
, but I prefer it on a land, because I only plan on using it once and Thassa's Scry 1 is really not enough of a reason to use the slot and pay the mana, whereas the land is free and provides mana up until i need it, as well as freeing up space for other things.
October 16, 2013 10:33 a.m.
Bestach, I used to have the same opinion on Thassa, God of the Sea (as you can see from my comments above). By a lucky chance I got 2 copies of her out of 11 booster packs, so I decided to give her a try, and I have to say, now I regard this card as a must have for a control deck - the scry alone is enough to justify 2 spots, and the unblockable ability has made Master of Cruelties my most frequent win condition.
October 16, 2013 10:42 a.m.
Idk. Half the time they have no creatures anyway so the damage gets through. I just feel like this effect isn't vital, so it isn't worth it to use one of the very few creatures I play in the deck mainly for that effect.
October 16, 2013 10:51 a.m.
Yeah, well, I don't look at the card as a creature, to me that's an indestructible enchantment with scry every upkeep and unblockable to a creature for 2 mana. That's great in my deck, but keep in mind I have plenty of removal spells to hold out in the first 4 turns, and then my big beaters come into play.
Again, if you don't have it, it's not worth it to buy it/trade for it. Especially now, when its price is very high with all the mono-blue success.
October 16, 2013 10:58 a.m.
i love grixis, but im not a big fan of heavy or cruel control.i made myself a midrange list. you might consider take a look: Deathproof Aetherling
October 20, 2013 2:23 a.m.
ChaosW34v3r says... #23
I like the list! I myself am putting together a grixis deck, list not posted yet, but I feel like I have a suggestion that may help. I would drop 1 Underworld Connections for 1 Thassa, God of the Sea and drop both Stormbreath Dragon s for 2 Master of Cruelties . Think about it, Thassa, God of the Sea is only 3 mana and she allows you to scry each turn and make a creature unblockable. Unblockable Master of Cruelties is going to be game 99% of the time.
October 21, 2013 11:41 a.m.
ChaosW34v3r says... #24
Although looking through the comments it looks like you've already playtested Master of Cruelties . Any reason you decided not to run him?
October 21, 2013 11:44 a.m.
Yes.
Master of Cruelties is a great card, however, in a control deck you wan to limit the creatures to those you're really going to need - the win conditions. And while he provides a win condition, you need only a few finishers in your deck so that you can have the room for card draw, removal and counter spells.
I was running Desecration Demon also, but the deck was lacking focus and was too inconsistent.
I love Master of Cruelties though, and I'm using him in another Grixis deck - Grixis Midrange Beatdown.
Dorotheus says... #1
The only thing you don't have that might be better is Thassa, God of the Sea . You have a very slim chance of getting her devotion, but the 2 for unblockable is better than Rogue's Passage plus the Scry every turn, although much more expensive monetarily.
September 30, 2013 5:59 a.m.