Yeah, I've never been annoyed by the one-of's or waiting for a specific card to come, as they are basically different spells with the same function, but with different conditions to be fully optimized. I'm more like : "Deck, please, give me a removal / a draw / a counterspell!". But as I stated in my above post, I'm not against the idea of changing that for consistancy's sake. Work in progress...
Regarding the Rakdos Keyrune, I'm less and less convinced of its utility, as it loses me a turn, prevents me from using instant removals or counterspells, and most of the time takes a removal as soon as I activate it. Sure it's strong vs aggro and Thragtusk, but if it takes a Searing Spear or an O-ring, I've just wasted 2 turns and up to 5 mana for nothing, and I'm here like a sitting duck... And I feel Thragtusk is not as dominant as it used to be, when I see more and more Esper control, gruul/naya/RDW aggro and aristocrats becoming the real threats. Thinking of swapping them in the SB with the 2x Tribute to Hunger, what do you think about this move?
March 13, 2013 5:29 a.m.
BaceJeleren says... #3
I agree that if you play them turn 3 while they have a threat on board they aren't too good. I usually keep mana open turn 3 for a counter/removal/draw and play the Keyrune on turn 4, leaving 2 mana open.
March 13, 2013 7:01 p.m.
That's the way I also do usually, but even then I feel it's just a card that's prone to take a removal, and I often wish I had myself a removal in hand instead of the keyrune... I'll try removing them, replacing them by 1x Ghost Quarter and 1x Barter in Blood, as it seems to be a good compromise to me, but I'll need some playtest vs a Thragtusk heavy deck to see if I can live without them.
March 14, 2013 3:58 a.m.
Cleared the comments, as many changes have happened since then, and they have become kind of obsolete. But they have enabled a lot of evolutions, and I'm always happy to read other points of view, so please feel free to make suggestions or give advice! Thanks again for helping make this deck what it is now =)
April 1, 2013 3:50 p.m.
Just wanted to let you know that Salazar968 and I liked your list so much we are using it as an example in The Current Standard #6. Hope you don't mind!
April 18, 2013 9:44 p.m.
Wow, I'm really honored by your choice! I'm still working on it to make it more resilient to super fast deck, my current weak spot. Grixis dream evolution is probably the list I'd like to end with, adding a few more early blast (Pillar of Flame and Rolling Temblor ) and Evil Twin instead of Rakdos Keyrune to deal with legendary hexproof creatures and Thragtusk all together. Will playtest at tonight's FNM to see if these changes are the way to go! Thanks again for your trust, if you see any possible improvement, don't hesitate to let me know!
April 19, 2013 4:38 a.m.
Did the changes and went quite well with them! Still hoping to appear in your next "The current standard" articles, as it appears you sticked with Caley's deck ;)
April 20, 2013 11:44 a.m.
I would suggest pulling Tamiyo, the Moon Sage and maybe Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker for some early game hate, like Ultimate Price . I used both yours and Caleys deck for The Current Standard #6. Hope you enjoy reading it!
April 20, 2013 12:37 p.m.
Already added in 2 removals for early hate, 14 really shall be enough MB, if you consider Olivia and Tamiyo as additional pseudo removal, plus the flashbacks and snappy, it should do the trick. I fear to lose much late game power if I remove those two PW, and to lose my wincons too... And I would'nt remove Bolas, just because it's what makes this deck fun to play, the feeling when you ult with him, man, it's just incredible =D and it's the only answer to pesky enchants or lands.
April 20, 2013 1:08 p.m.
Keeping Nicol Bolas in is fine, but I fear that Tamiyo, the Moon Sage doesn't give you enough. Im gonna ask Salazar968 about what he thinks.
April 20, 2013 5:26 p.m.
Sure, it's good to have other opinions! I usually like Tamiyo, for her ability to deal with pesky lands (she won me several games by keeping a Nephalia Drownyard tapped out all game long up to her ultimate. What's good is that her good ability is in her +1, so you don't have to force her ultimate. It keeps recurring creatures at bay too, so that Thragtusk and Angel of Serenity don't have to be killed.
But you are probably right, I used to play without her and I didn't feel to miss her that much. I will probably give Ral zarek a try instead. There are several spells too that I'd like to get in, mainly Turn // Burn and Far // Away for their two for one abilities. Any thoughts on these?
April 21, 2013 5:29 a.m.
I love both turn//burn and far//away. Ral zareck on the other hand......he's worse than tamiyo and jace 4.0.
April 21, 2013 11:16 a.m.
Yeah, Liliana may simply be better than everything here. I should give her a try maybe. Or just forget about a 4th PW and go for more instants / sorceries instead.
April 22, 2013 2:46 a.m.
Or give back a slot to Niv-mizzet instead? Even if he's prone to take a removal, if he doesn't, it's usually GG.
April 22, 2013 2:55 a.m.
I don't like Niv. Hes slow and paying 6 mana to take a removal....seems bad. Liliana of the Veil would be really nice though.
April 22, 2013 7:46 a.m.
Another 60$ to dive in this deck to get a couple in... Will playtest and see if it's worth a shot!
April 22, 2013 8:18 a.m.
Liliana of the Veil is just a good card to have anyway. She sees a ton of play in both modern and legacy, so it's not very likely she will go down in price.
April 22, 2013 8:24 a.m.
Yeah, you're right. I removed Tribute to Hunger and Tamiyo, the Moon Sage for a 2 Lilis and a pillar, but I feel I'll miss some instant speed removals this way. Maybe going for Searing Spear instead of Pillar of Flame would do the trick? Or Murder instead of Rolling Temblor ? I really like the turn 1 pillar, turn 2 Dreadbore , turn 3 snappy on pillar trick though.
April 22, 2013 8:50 a.m.
Added in spears instead of pillars. Moved Evil Twin to SB, for a 3rd Olivia and a 3rd Think Twice . Olivia is so much better than Niv-mizzet in so many MU, a 3rd copy shouldn't hurt.
April 22, 2013 9:39 a.m.
I don't like Tragic Slip because it is really conditional. I would suggest replacing them with 3x Murder
I also do not like Rolling Temblor , because in a world full of Thragtusk , its 1 damage short. Barter in Blood is really effective and can often be a board wipe, so I would pull the temblor for Barter in Blood
Sever the Bloodline often hits less things than Barter in Blood because of the lack of tribal decks these days. I would suggest pulling the sever for 2 more Barter in Blood
Also, adding 3x Murder means that you have enough instant speed removal...and you don't need Searing Spear . You can pull these for Tribute to Hunger , Ultimate Price , maybe even add 1 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage back in. Salazar968 made me re-think Tamiyo, and fixing your removal base opens room up for her and a one-of actually seems pretty good.
April 22, 2013 10:07 a.m.
I think you'd be surprise of how useful Tragic Slip in this deck. The main goal with it is to deal with early one drops at instant speed, like Champion of the Parish , Stromkirk Noble or mana dorks, or even a turn 2 Lightning Mauler paired to a Burning-Tree Emissary . Later on, it just wrecks everything if something die. Not as if it occurred often with all our removal and chump blockers. These, plus a spear or dreadbore, can wreck havoc in an opponent's forces early on.
I really like Barter in Blood , but as I play 9 creatures, it often ends up being a 2 for 2 instead of 1 for 2. Plus, it's one turn slower than Rolling Temblor , and one turn is huge against decks that can 4-turn you to death. The main goal here is to have a mini board wipe turn 3 against aggro, it gets sided out vs other decks, but it can deal with dorks also easily, ending up being solid CA, even more with the flashback. I have also things to deal with bigger threats, so it's a small sacrifice for a significant impact in the aggro MU.
Same reason for Sever the Bloodline , it does great vs mid-range / ramp decks. where the flashback and exile part are most relevant. Plus, in decks full of 4-ofs, it's quite common to exile two or more copies of the same creature.
I will still give BiB and Murder a shot instead of those, but I'm afraid my deck would suffer from lack of speed against early aggression. Maybe adding in a few slips or pillars in the mix? I feel a combination of pillar + dreadbore + slip can deal with the early aggression, and adding a few murders and BiB for the late one can be a thing. Will try it out and revert ;)
And yeah, keeping or not Tamiyo is something I keep wondering. She's a great finisher, and deals with various kind of threats, but if she gets destroyed, the threat she's been deeling with is still there, so Idk. I guess dumping her for a 3rd Olivia was a good thing, as it allows me to play more aggressive.
April 27, 2013 1:43 a.m.
After trying a bit, I feel the Grixis dream evolution list to be quite efficient. BiB is OP. Even if you have an augur in play, you can use him to chump block and use BiB the turn after. Murder deals with a lot of threats, but with 3 pillar and 2 slip to deal with small creatures, I may consider Tribute to Hunger instead for the less colored mana and life gain which is quite relevant in the aggro MU. Need to put my hands on a couple Liliana of the Veil . She really wrecks havoc. She gets rid of a guy without dying, and if not handled, will just ruin their hand. Anyway, she's a thing, being such a CA engine, and even if she gets smashed with a blast after doing one of here abilities, it's still win to me.
April 27, 2013 11:06 a.m.
Awesomenesss says... #25
Check out Grixis beast mode control I think it would provide some good tips for you
BaceJeleren says... #1
Pretty good list, similar to mine (Grixis Control (Devil's Play, You Lose)). A lot of one-of's, but that might be how you like it.
March 12, 2013 3:35 p.m.