Thats why when we are playing with gruul, red spells are the best for removal and should be maximised. Thanks for the tip

I'm going to make the rest of my comments on the All Things Wolven thread rather than here, because this is for discussing clayperce's deck.

As a finisher a copy or two of Descent of Dragons has been hilarious for me due to Impact Tremors and turning 2/2's into 4/4's- plus it can buy you time later game by blocking flyers and giving you time to swing through.

I love Descent of the Dragons to death.

Argeaux,
The Instant speed of Kozilek's Return is certainly tempting, even though it's a maximum of 2 damage. I've got it on the maybeboard for now, but we'll see. Will definitely swap if I find myself casting Radiant Flames for two (either due to mana or boardstate).

lords2001 and Argeaux,
Yeah, Descent of the Dragons is great and I love it in EDH. I've moved the deck slightly more Mid-range lately, but I'm still not sure I want a six-drop. If I go more Mid-range though, I'll definitely give it a try!

Thanks!

gameday results

3-1

3rd place

added collected company, speeeeeed. its fun when you have zada and 3 silverfurs out and you get to triple your token generation with 1 instant. works nice with impact tremors

if you have the collected company, add them.

I wouldn't put Descent of the Dragons in this deck. I don't feel it's the right fit.

How does the Collected Company target Zada? I don't think it does. How were you using it to get extra tokens?

Have you thought about adding Second Harvest to this deck? (I'm not sure if it has been mentioned previously) It's a bit of a high drop, but with Cryptolith Rite it should't be too much of a problem. :P

fuzzelump,
Thanks, but no way on Collected Company. CoCo needs at least 22 targetable Creatures for it to be worthwhile. Plus it's better with three-drops rather than all my Aggro one- and two- drops. Plus, like Argeaux points out, CoCo doesn't fetch Zada. For this deck, Duskwatch Recruiter  ^Flip and Evolutionary Leap are the best way to dig for Zada and Silverfur.

Argeaux,
I agree. Incidentally, I think fuzzelump was talking about fetching extra Silverfurs.

oo-Annihilator,
Second Harvest hasn't really come up, but there's really no room for another four-drop in the current deck. May be good option for a Midrange build though ... especially with Impact Tremors. A Midrange Temur build that is ... it'd be just a lose-more card without something like a Negate to counter an Opponent's Declaration in Stone.

Thanks all!

A quick question on Confront the Unknown and Zada, Hedron Grinder. The text of the former reads that the target gets +1/+1 or each clue token you control until end of turn. This makes me believe that if you were to sac clues between casting and resolving damage that the number of counters would diminish, and if you added clues the number would increase. In that case, wouldn't each creature get the same number of +1/+1 counters?

MakoSochou

It would revolve per copy per cast. So supposing you have Zada and three other creatures, right?

The first copy, which is Zada's, resolves first so that's 1 +1/+1. The next copy would move to the next creature, so another clue is generated, that would make it 2 +1/+1... And it then increments.

As for damage resolution and clue sacc'ing, the spell resolves first and the damage is dealt before the token number is reduced...

snarlmkiv, ok I got it. Thank you.

Coco isnt for zada.

Expect after game 1, zada doesnt stay on the board long.

Silverfur is the target overall for coco.

snarlmkiv & MakoSochou,
One clarification, from Gatherer: You choose the order the copies are put onto the stack. The original spell will be on the stack beneath those copies and will resolve last. So in the example of Zada plus three other creatures, Zada (who was targeted with the original spell) will get +4/+4 ... or more, if there were other Clue Tokens already on the battlefield.

Many thanks clayperce. This is the same for Might of the Masses too, right?

snarlmkiv,
Well, it happens the same, but the different text on the Might vs. Confront yield very different results ...

Here's a long example of each, starting with Zada, Hedron Grinder, Silverfur Partisan, and a 2/2 Wolf Token on the battlefield. And assuming no counterspells nor Artifact (i.e., Clue) destruction from your opponent.

Confront the Unknown + Zada, Hedron Grinder :

• Cast Confront, targeting Zada.
• Confront is copied 2x, targeting Silverfur and then the Wolf Token (or the other way around, if you prefer).
• Silverfur triggers for itself and the Token. Put 2x more Wolf Tokens on the battlefield.
• The third Confront (on the Wolf Token) resolves. Investigate, putting a Clue Token on the battlefield. The Wolf Token gets +1/+1 until end of turn (or more if there were already Clues on the battlefield).
• The second Confront (on Silverfur) resolves. Investigate, putting another Clue Token on the battlefield. Silverfur gets +2/+2 until end of turn.
• The first Confront (on Zada) resolves. Investigate, putting another Clue Token on the battlefield. Zada gets +3/+3 until end of turn.

Might of the Masses + Zada, Hedron Grinder :

• Cast Might, targeting Zada.
• Might is copied 2x, targeting Silverfur and then the Wolf Token (or the other way around, if you prefer).
• Silverfur triggers for itself and the Token. Put 2x more Wolf Tokens on the battlefield.
• The third Might (on the Wolf Token) resolves. The Wolf Token gets +5/+5 until end of turn.
• The second Confront (on Silverfur) resolves. Silverfur gets +5/+5 until end of turn.
• The first Confront (on Zada) resolves. Zada gets +5/+5 until end of turn.

Hopefully that helps!

clayperce

I did not even know about the way everything resolves until you just explained it now. I thought the original spell (the targetig zada) would resolved before the copies, essentially giving zada the smallest pump and then working it's way through the copies. This helps a lot with the way I will cast my spells and what not. \

TylerBrownell97: Once you get trigger stacking or what I like to call it "Trigger Rigging", Magic becomes a complete different game and makes a lot more things possible.

If one wanted to give Rabid Bite a shot with this deck, targeting Zada, Hedron Grinder could any combination of targets be chosen for the additional creatures?

MakoSochou,
Sorry, but no. Zada only triggers on a "spell that targets only Zada" and Rabid Bite has to have two targets (the "target creature you control" and the "target creature you don't control").

Gotcha. Many thanks for taking the time to answer my rules questions.

MakoSochou,
No problem!

You even talk about Village Messenger  ^Flip in your description! In my mind there is no excuse for not running him over the enter playset of Lightning Berserker.

Faiths_Guide,
Yeah, I talk about how I used to run Village Messenger  ^Flip :-D

Like I also say in the description, I prefer Lightning Berserker for the Firebreathing + Dash (immune to Sorcery speed removal) if the game drags on.

Thanks though!

Lightning Berserker is better in the late game with it's self-pump ability. Village Messenger  ^Flip can do better in the early game as a potential 2/2 body with menace, but getting it transformed at such a time is usually difficult, and if it doesn't transform, you are stuck with a 1/1.