GTC DDD Deck

Unknown KrazyCaley

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KrazyCaley says... #1

Looks like everyone currently on is saying the same thing. I'll make the changes and let people continue to throw in their two cents.

March 6, 2013 3:49 p.m.

MagnorCriol says... #2

Looks good to me.

I still think that -1 Shark and -1 Hands of Binding, +1 Plains and +1 Angelic Skirmisher is a solid mana base that hits both T2 GU and T6 WW reliably; it was in my testing, anyhow, hitting T2 GU all but once or twice and only missing T6 Skirmisher mana about a quarter of the time (and some of those times it was just missing six mana, not specifically missing WW).

I didn't really have time to run a reliably large sample size, though, so those aren't really the most scientifically rigorous results.

But I do love that low, low mana curve. That thing is sexy. Fish crabs, ahoy.

March 6, 2013 4:16 p.m.

Maybe we keep that plains and Angelic Skirmisher close by, in case we meet well put together extort or aggro decks. Then the lifelink/vigilance/first strike would be more relevant than speed.

March 6, 2013 4:32 p.m.

TikiShades says... #4

Pretty upset about cutting Angelic Skirmisher. I mean, perhaps it is for the best, but a part of me aches knowing we ditched one of the best bombs in GTC limited.

March 6, 2013 4:46 p.m.

jkarnes says... #5

I still do not like having 4 Shambleshark. I feel it is a mistake to play all of them... but unfortunately we drafted ourselves into this corner.

March 6, 2013 4:46 p.m.

dcarpntr says... #6

I feel like although are curve is super low, if we don't win by turn 6 then we don't win. I think the skirmisher is what breaks those stalemates in our favor. I don't think it would be a problem to add in the skirmisher and take out something a little less useful (like the viper, maybe???). I know the double denizen will help with cluttered board states, but wouldn't having three answers to come back later in the game be better than two?

I don't even think we need to change our 16 land mana base to be able to play it. We have 2 prisms, so it's like have 4 plains in the deck already. We don't have to play it on turn 6. We just need to be able to cast it when we draw it in the late game when our board state has stalled out. It's not a "win more" card for us. It's a tie-breaker.

Boros and Gruul decks are just as fast as us, and they're guys come out swinging harder than ours do. Our creatures take time to get big, and we have to draw the right cards to keep them getting bigger. So sometimes we'll have to survive long enough to get to that cluttered board state where there are no favorable attacks for either player.

Orzhov and Dimir decks will kill/mill our dudes and extort us to death if we aren't fast enough. Skirmisher gives us lifegain and a decent flying body that needs to be answered by those decks, or else we'll take back control of the game.

I get it that people want to run this deck fast and hard, but limited formats tend to be slower than standard, and we don't have the power level of a standard deck to think we can just rush our opponents every turn and they won't be able to stand up to our relentless charges of weenies. It takes time to get our little big enough to be real threats. The angel is our nail in the coffin. It ends games.

These are the reasons I feel like we should main board the angel. Just my two cents. I understand why if we don't, but I'd feel better about our chances of winning game one more often if we had it main decked instead of sideboarded.

March 6, 2013 4:52 p.m.

dcarpntr says... #7

Also, I've been playtesting the deck a lot the last 30 minutes and 4 sharks do seem a bit much, and a dead draw the later the game goes. Perhaps we could cut that for the Skirmisher, or something like Last Thoughts?

March 6, 2013 4:53 p.m.

dorminjake says... #8

I like ChiefWannaHacka's idea of the angel being a sideboard bomb against decks that are able to stave off our game 1 aggro plans. We just really need the aggressive focus for our main deck when we have a mana curve like that.

March 6, 2013 4:53 p.m.

TikiShades says... #9

We can't cut the Wasteland Viper. It's excellent surprise removal. It's definitely useful.

March 6, 2013 4:59 p.m.

dcarpntr says... #10

Fine. But jkarnes had it correct. We don't need 4 sharks.

March 6, 2013 5:04 p.m.

dorminjake says... #11

You could always think of the Shamblesharks as a removal spell against 2-toughness creatures, a la Ambush Viper. Fish Crab is a versatile meat, and goes excellently with white mana wine.

March 6, 2013 5:20 p.m.

I feel like although are curve is super low, if we don't win by turn 6 then we don't win. I think the skirmisher is what breaks those stalemates in our favor. - dcarpntr

Yes, but the changes we have to make in order to make the Skirmisher work end up hurting the win-by-turn-six plan. Running extra lands and mana fixing cards makes us less aggro. In a game that lasts 13 turns, we only dig through half the deck. Most games won't run that long, so the odds of us even drawing the Skirmisher are less than 50%.

March 6, 2013 5:20 p.m.

dcarpntr says... #13

True. Like I said, I understand why we aren't running it in the main. I just think it's too good to be in the sideboard. I'll drop the subject of putting it back in and wait to see how the deck turns out. Hopefully we can win quickly without needing it to side it in. But then again, will that make us feel like we shouldn't have picked it if it never goes in?

March 6, 2013 5:50 p.m.

We can't just stick Skirmisher into the deck because it works "when we draw it in the late game". The problem is we can't arrange our deck in the exact order we would like to. If we ever see it before turn 6 or we can't get WW mana, it's a completely dead card. Completely dead cards are BAD.

Keeping the Shambleshark playset keeps the consistency of our early game to a maximum. Even though it is a weaker play on turn 5 than it is on turn 2, it still has synergy with Ivy Lane Denizen, and 2-3 power is always relevant in Limited.

March 6, 2013 5:52 p.m.

I am a big fan of this build. I'd like the 4th Shambleshark, but the trade for the Hands of Binding looks like it will add versatility to our deck, which is always good.

I also second the movement that we name our deck "I think we need a bigger boat".

March 6, 2013 5:54 p.m.

Goody says... #16

It all really came down to the picks that we got in each pack. If we had gotten some more solid white cards we might have included the Angelic Skirmisher and ran a bigger white splash; as it turned out, we drafted very aggressive cards and came up with an aggressive deck.

I just hope we do well, because if we do terrible then it'll seem like it was my fault for suggesting a bad decklist :(

March 6, 2013 5:54 p.m.

Goody says... #17

landgrafb, we do have 4x Shambleshark in the deck, and we also have one copy of the Hands of Binding

March 6, 2013 5:56 p.m.

MagnorCriol says... #18

Thirding the "I Think We Need A Bigger Boat" deck name.

March 6, 2013 5:59 p.m.

Goody says... #19

Oh I didn't notice this, but should we run 7 forests and 6 islands instead of the reverse? That's the way the land is arranged in my version because it seems to fit the mana symbols better in the pie chart, but I'm not sure it would matter, and KrazyCaley likes Islands so much.

March 6, 2013 6:01 p.m.

Islands are OP...

March 6, 2013 6:09 p.m.

I got confused because I saw the Shambleshark in the sideboard and assumed we were missing one in the deck. Shark Team GOOO.

I'd agree with the Islands < Forests trade. Objectively, the color wheel demands it. Forests also help us BloodRush more consistently. It probably doesn't matter too much overall, though.

March 6, 2013 6:19 p.m.

apt142 says... #22

I'm liking this build! The head, the tail, the whole damn thing!

I'm glad we got those sharks in there. Maybe KrazyCaley can hum the jaws theme before he casts them.

March 6, 2013 6:21 p.m.

Goody says... #23

Ooh but Islands let us pump Metropolis Sprite if we have counters or Simic Charm on her... And we do have Gyre Sage for green ramp. The bloodrush is a valid point though

March 6, 2013 6:22 p.m.

I prefer the extra island. It's not about which color we need more of. It's about which color we need first.

In the single mana slot we have two castables: Cloudfin Raptor and Wasteland Viper. No big deal either way, but if I had both cards in hand, I'd rather cast the evolving flyer first.

In the two drop slot, we have a bunch of cards that require both UG. But we have 2 that are U only and 1 that needs G. Advantage U.

In the three drops, we have nothing that matters. Four drops is where G becomes more important. However, we're more likely to have pulled a G producer by that time we're ready to cast 4 drops..

It's a very slight advantage, but we need U before we need G.

March 6, 2013 6:34 p.m.

I'm cool with that logic

March 6, 2013 6:40 p.m.

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