@ AndWelcomeToTheJam

Demonlord of Ashmouth, a Tarmogoyf for undying decks? I don't want to be rude, but.... (snicker) Good joke.

See, that card is neither efficient as a sac outlet (can't sac on command, at instant speed, or repeatedly) nor is it remarkably good at evasion (won't bypass flyers and reach, only affects itself). It isn't even very big for its cost.

Thanks for your time though.

@ anonymoose

Grim Haruspex is really good card draw. I've been considering to include it. However, I found that I prefer Viscera Seer. It's cheaper, works as a sac outlet, and while scry isn't as good as draw, it still lets me dig into the deck at almost the same rate. If I had space to fill, Grim Haruspex would probably be in the deck.

Thanks for your suggestion, it is appreciated.

How do you feel about Tendrils of Agony as a win condition?

+1 for the sac, reanimate theme. Never realized Hex Parasite could ace planeswalkers before now, may need to slide a few into my sideboard for my deck

I feel like bone splinters would be a great addition for this deck

Retribution of the Ancients does that work just fine, and kills even indestructible creatures. Abrupt Decay can be sided in when the deck needs more removal, and allows to get rid of noncreature permanents too.

Thanks for the suggestion, it's appreciated.

Have you considered Collected Company for this build? It can do wonders to help you get that last piece you need to set off the loop in addition to filling up the board with undying guys.

dlaxw7, the problem with CoCo is that it only gets creatures on the field, and tucks all other cards under my deck. Since the most important card in the deck is not a creature, and I have no trouble getting critters out anyway, CoCo is not a viable option for this deck.

Thrull parasite could be retributions 5-8. Also cheap and a body to swing or chump if needed. The 2 life maybe a bit steep on second thought, maybe I would test 1-2 copies?

Like Hex Parasite? That's currently retribution 5-6. It's repeatable, takes (I often choose to pay life) and can nuke Planeswalkers and Hydras too. Well, I guess it can't hurt to keep Thrull Parasite in the maybeboard as a reminder just in case I need to remember its existence later.

I understand the loop but Vampiric Rites is a little on the situational and slow side. I'd highly recommend bringing in 3 Abrupt Decays in its place being that your deck doesn't interact in any way with non-creature permanents. (Hex Parasite and planeswalkers excluded). Ghostly Prison is something that could seriously put a halt to your deck. Also you won't always be able to get Hex Parasite when you opponent plays their planeswalker. Having that little bit of extra removal is always helpful.

I've easily blasted through Ghostly Prison and other, more effective cards of similar nature before by means of Blood Artist and/or Geralf's Messenger. Another option is to swing with just one well boosted unblockable. I'm seriously tired of people going on about how card x would singlehandedly stop a deck, especially when it's not even true.

As for your suggestion of mainboarding the decays, I've been considering that. There's a reason I keep them in the sideboard, and it's called consistency. Modern is a removal-heavy format, and that is best countered by redundancy and card advantage. Adding potentially superfluous removal is detrimental to that. When I think that the opponent has artifacts or enchantments that put me in danger, then I side it in.

Now, when is card draw not useful? There's nothing situational about my use of Vampiric Rites. Even the fact that it needs a sacrifice does not make it situational in this deck, although it might be decks with less disposable creatures. I agree on the speed issue though, it can be a tad slow sometimes, especially when compared to Altar's Reap, which is the perfect t2 follow-up for a t1 Young Wolf.

1) I didn't say Ghostly Prison could stop your deck. I simply said it would put a halt to it. Having to choose whether to attack or play another spell can slow you down enough for your opponent to find a way to pick themselves back up. All you needed to say was that it hasn't been a problem for you so far. Remember that everyone else commenting can only think of cards that seem good to be in the deck or bad against it. We don't know for sure being that we haven't actually playtested your deck. Based on the combinations in the deck I can see now how you'd easily get past Ghostly Prison.

2) I didn't read Vampiric Rites correctly and didn't see that it drew a card (I'm a modern player and don't know as many standard cards). Based on the combinations in the deck I can see how it is helpful overall. However I disagree with one aspect of redundancy that you mentioned. While yes with modern it is good to have, it can also lead you to have dead cards in your hand if there is too much. Your deck seems pretty well balanced except for the interaction with your opponents deck (Game one at least) and the suggestion was there to try and give you more of the edge game one.

Sorry, but as far as my english goes, stopping something and putting a halt to it are pretty much interchangeable terms.

I also disagree on redundancy leading to dead draws. In doubt it allows you to play two of the same card for twice the effect. There are only very few cards in the deck that are not useful when drawing multiple of them, and those are vital enough to make a backup in the hand profitable.

"Remember that everyone else commenting can only think of cards that seem good to be in the deck or bad against it. We don't know for sure being that we haven't actually playtested your deck."

That is not true. I know for a fact that we have users who can think further than that. I have also seen that some users like to know what they are talking about when criticizing or giving advice. Some users either have informed themselves enough to give solid advice or just leave it to those who did. They might be a minority, but those are the guys I cycle my decks for.

Was wondering why you decided to drop Viscera Seer here. I personally really like him for efficient cycling once you get looping, certainly more so than Vampiric Rites, since the cost to sac is so high. Plus, the Seer gives you a little board presence and can blow up if you've got Blade of the Bloodchief out.

Also, looking at your sideboard I'm thinking Tragic Slip is a little redundant. I'd suggest dropping them and sliding in a combo of Inquisition of Kozilek and Thoughtseize. They work really well, especially with Surgical Extraction, for knocking out graveyard hate.

I'm currently still testing which is better, Vampiric Rites or Viscera Seer. The seer is cheaper and can be activated more easily, while the rites draw actual cards that are worth the mana and won't die to creature removal. As you can see, Vampiric Rites currently has my favor by a small margin despite being more expensive, but if I feel that it fails me too often, Viscera Seer goes back in. It doesn't really matter on game 2 since those are usually the first cards I side out.

However, I didn't really tune the sideboard much, and there are some remnants that should have been removed by now. The Tragic Slips might really be redundant with Retribution of the Ancients and Abrupt Decay in the deck. I have a strong dislike for discard spells, both on the giving and the receiving end, but since they would work well against the hate that the opponent inevitably sides in on game 2, they're in.

I'm loving this deck build, it reminds me of an old deck I once built using Grave Crawler with Blood Artist and Bloodflow Connoisseur for massive life drain and heavy beaters with Geralf's Messenger but a much better version using green to help it and not going the mono Black like I did. definitely a +1 from me but I only has one question, I know Champion of Lambholt works great with the undying triggers but wouldn't Rot Shambler work better with the self sacing creatures? Just wondering also for the dumb ass that said Ghostly Prison would stop this deck is a fool my mono black version demolished one of my buddy's that tried that when I kept sacing the Grave Crawler and drained them out completely with Blood Artist dont forget about Butcher Ghoul hes also another little abusive creature too. sorry long post but still loving this build and had to share! :D

I just had a thought, seeing how your sacrificing your own creatures Grave Pact would really piss people off and it's modern legal lol

@ LordVile

Don't worry, it's always nice to see another connoisseur of Sacrifices That Don't Stay Dead.

About the Rot Shambler, it's a bit faster and would fit. However, Champion of Lambholt also provides evasion for the whole team at just one mana more. It works with any creature since it provides counters on EtB. In addition, you can use it to get some first counters in those odd situations where you just can't get your creatures killed.

For example, with Champion of Lambholt and Retribution of the Ancients on the field, just playing a Young Wolf would already give a first +1/+1 counter. You can use that to pay for Retribution of the Ancients' first activation cost and initiate a loop that repeatedly kills the wolf and generates counters on the champion. With Rot Shambler, there's no counter on EtB and the loop wouldn't initiate.

There's quite a few of these alternative loops. I'm just too lazy to cover every single one in detail, mostly because it would require me to list them all and find a way to explain them all without repeating myself twenty times in a row.

Nice, yeah that makes sense. Have you thought about any creatures with persist?

Sure, I've built decks around persist. It's not a mechanic that fits in this deck, but fun nonetheless. So much evil can be done when you get Mikaeus, the Unhallowed and Glen Elendra Archmage out, to name just one example. The only way to make sure that neither undying nor persist trigger on death is to kill it with -1/-1 counters while there are +1/+1 counters on it. Or exile/bounce it, of course. It's too bad there's no effect that permanently grants persist in the way Mikaeus grants undying.