SMASH THAT LIKE BUTTON SMASH THAT SPIKE MUTTON LIKE THAT CRASH SUTTON

lööööööööööööööööööööööööööööööööööööööööööööööööööööööps

Curiously (maybe I am missing something) but how does the “Meat bouncing Kiri” parts work?

Because Kiri reads “Whenever you CAST a spirit or arcane spell...”

And Meta enters the battlefield as a copy... he is not a spirit while we cast it?

Am I wrong? And if yes what part of the ruling am I not understanding?

ShaperSavant tw0handt0uch

thegigibeast You cast Kiri. You cast Meta copying Kiri, bouncing the original Kiri. Then you cast the original Kiri (which is a spirit), which triggers the Metamorph-Kiri's "when you cast a spirit" trigger.

Nevermind I got it, did not realized Kiri had the bounce effect on ETB and only the return to hand on cast, I understand now.

Thanks!

Hi. I'm hoping you can help me understand the Kiri-Onna loops because I have been going over the sequence you lay out and as far as I can tell it isn't infinite. At the point where you use Phyrexian Metamorph to copy Peregrine Drake you have used up all three of your blue sources so you are forced to pay 2 life to cast the Meta. The whole sequence basically nets you at the cost of 2 life each cycle. If the red source is also able to produce then you can complete the cycle without paying life but you don't net any additional mana.

I found an alternate sequence after the Drake is on the board that allows you to net infinite red mana without having to constantly pay life:

• Kiri bouncing Meta (cost: )

• Meta paying 2 life copying and bouncing Kiri (cost: 2 life)

• Kiri to return Meta and bounce Drake (cost: )

• Drake to untap lands, tapping red source in response (cost . gain . Lands now untapped)

Now you can loop Meta copying and bouncing Kiki -> Kiri returning Meta and bouncing Drake -> Cast Drake to untap lands without having to pay anymore life, and each loop nets you .

So the cost altogether would be + 8 life and 2 counters on Animar to set up the infinite mana loop.

However, neither your sequence or mine is able to set up any other loops involving Imperial Recruiter without the red source also being able to tap for blue mana. I'm not sure that matters though because after getting infinite red mana I just cast the Meta one last time copying the Recruiter to get Walking Ballista for the kill.

I've been double checking both sequences using physical cards so I don't think that I'm missing anything but I very well may be. Can you see any errors in what I am doing?

SaberTech

Short answers: this nets infinite Animar counters on 3 blue sources. When you have lands untapped you can end the loop and Metamorph for Ballista, which wins. You don't recast the Recruiter, you recast the Metamorph as a copy of the Recruiter.

Long answer: please wait, I'm working on a small primer that should clear up some of the ambiguities and put out better lines. You can Kiri loop a Wood Elves into this sequence to pull out more blue sources from your deck.

n0bunga Probably not better than Purphoros, which I'm avoiding. Still looking for solutions to some loop wincons using only generally strong cards, so thanks for this one!

SaberTech Primer is up!

Hi! congrats for the very nice primer!

just a question... dont you think Trinket Mage + Altar of the Brood could be goods add in?

thanks

tlfernan Trinket Mage already gets Walking Ballista to do something similar. I cut it because it was a bit narrow but it's reasonable to play

This list looks pretty sweet! Just wondering Vizier of the Menagerie is worth it for this?

It seems like Glen Elendra Archmage would slot well here. It fits in with some of the counterspell suite, adds a counter, gets potentially two uses, and is harder to counter as an activated ability (seemingly making it better than Swan Song aside from being a Spellseeker target). It also survives board wipes, should someone cast one without any U open.

It gets around Torpor Orb effects, although it doesn't stop them, plus you could seemingly tutor for it off of Imperial Recruiter.

Lastly, any of your "Add +1/+1 counters" creatures could potentially give you a third use, if needed. Any reason for the omission?

DSerge75 It might be worth it as a grindy midrange slot vs. control decks. It's a bit slow and inconsistent.

pigskinlover It's very hard to get Glen down and active turn 3 and that's kind of the critical turn where we're looking to hold up interaction. It's distinctly not better than Swan Song. Seems like a fair enough inclusion if you're looking to go longer.

Hi again!

what do you think would be a fair replacement for Survival of the Fittest in a less expensive version? Birthing Pod, maybe?

Thanks!

tlfernan You could give Signal the Clans or a combination of Fierce Empath + Brutalizer Exarch a shot!

You have no way of dealing with a Torpor Orb.

@ShaperSavant

Thank you for notifying me about the primer. It answered some of the questions I had regarding the Kiri loop. The primer seems to assume that all four lands are capable of producing blue mana, which I didn't realize on the first read through. I was wondering where the fourth blue source needed to keep the combo going was coming from.

Have you considered sandstone oracle? Could be decent over slithermuse, albeit more expensive without enough counters on animar. With enough, it's free for the same effect

Alright, still it's awesome work! I'm still trying to get used to see a deck without Sol Ring, though.

Draken44 Tested it, it's pretty clunky; hard to get up to 7 efficiently.

already any idea abt how to deal with Lavinia, Azorius Renegade?

Probably pyroblast etc

REB, Pyroblast, Ancient Animus, Pongify, etc. tlfernan

I was thinking abt Goblin Cratermaker as an add-in...

ShaperSavant just a question... although is possible to go for kiri loops using only 3 lands, you still need 4 manas, right? (using dorks or rocks) been trying to find a way to do it with 3 manas, but couldnt.