@ reawkwian I've had issues trying to draw up my crabs before, and with the limitations of only a land a turn, and how heavy removal is, mill spells have proven to be pretty good.
I've had issues trying to find good and cheap draw power, preferably at instant speed. I know Think Twice
which is good, but, it hasn't often led me to great victory in this deck.
@ BinkyBoo I used to have Deprive
in this deck, and I'm strongly considering back to it. It's just unfortunate when you have no crabs down, and you have to set yourself back a turn to stay afloat.
April 26, 2013 4:24 p.m.
thought scour? or curiosity with invisible stalker or tormented soul?their are cheap removal spells like dead weight hedron decks are fast so usually stuff like dead weight works pretty nicely for a 1 drop black. heck even tragic slip is a one drop
April 26, 2013 4:32 p.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #4
Glimpse the Unthinkable would be, in my opinion, better than Breaking (you never know when those extra two cards could be the difference in the game). Now I say this for every mill deck I come across, but Keening Stone might be worth consideration. Same with Traumatize (I'm just a sucker for that Traumatize - Keening Stone combo :) ). I am not a big fan of Fog Bank ; I prefer Guard Gomazoa , because for 1 extra mana it can do damage and has 1 extra point of toughness.
I really like the deck as a B/U. The B adds so much more options. This is a great mill deck and I like the way it plays. It's way better than the one I have. Keep up the good work!
April 29, 2013 8:55 p.m.
@GoldGhost012 I originally had Guard Gomazoa
in the build but, I kept having issues with aggro decks so something to block earlier became really important. I would love to get Glimpse the Unthinkable
but, I am trying to keep this a budget deck, and Breaking
is literally a tenth of the cost.
I had considered putting a Keening Stone
in place of the Codex Shredder
but, the consistent turn after turn grind down from them is much more disheartening to the opponent.
I really need something to help power my drawing power. Cause with my costs so low I tend to burn out of hand and am suddenly left top decking.
Know anything good at the 3-4 mana slot that is reliable?
April 29, 2013 11:30 p.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #6
As far as intants and sorceries go, I run See Beyond and Foresee in my mill and counter decks. I would also recommend Ponder , Brainstorm , and Amass the Components . I like them because none of these cards make you have to discard. If you want just raw drawing power late in the game, you can't go wrong with Blue Sun's Zenith . It's also surprising cheap price-wise and you can use it over and over again.
For creatures, I like Impaler Shrike , Alchemist's Apprentice , Merchant of Secrets , Kami of the Crescent Moon and Archivist . Impaler Shrike , Alchemist's Apprentice , and Merchant of Secrets can only be used once, but Impaler Shrike is a fairly powerful flyer and Alchemist's Apprentice can be used whenever you want. Archivist is a weak creature for a medium converted mana cost, but lets you draw every turn. The only drawbacks with Kami of the Crescent Moon are that it lets your opponent draw as well and that it costs 2U (which still shouldn't be a problem).
I would also advise you to toss both Negate and Remove Soul for 4 Deprive . Deprive lets you counter any spell and lets you bounce a land for Hedron Crab ! Just for the fun of it, I'll also suggest Quest for Ancient Secrets because it lets you get back all your used mill spells and it keeps you from being milled; plus I love it! :) Hope this helps!
April 30, 2013 12:43 p.m.
Thank you for all the suggestions! Those are exactly what I've been looking for. I've got a lot of play testing to do now.
April 30, 2013 2:38 p.m.
I happened to find Azure Mage
which I find to better than Archivist
. She not only lets me draw at instant speed just like the Archivist
but, I can do it a turn earlier than the Archivist
and she is a 2/1 body so she could play offense if an opening is provided.
I also like See Beyond
more than Foresee
. It's 2 turns earlier, and the same draw power. Though it is not as good at setting up the deck for the following turns I think that it being able to help dig through the deck earlier will help more.
Now is the really hard part for me. What should I cut for these?
I don't really want to cut much in the way of mill spells since they are the real meat of this deck.
Any ideas?
April 30, 2013 3:43 p.m.
I want to run 2-4 of one. Enough that I hit them at least once a game. So i can restock my hand just a little bit.
April 30, 2013 8:08 p.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #11
Well, if you want to put in 4 cards, I have several different scenarios:
A) Remove 2 Surgical Extraction
and 2 Archive Trap
B) Remove 2 Surgical Extraction
and 2 Codex Shredder
C) Remove 2 Surgical Extraction
, 1 Archive Trap
and 1 Codex Shredder
I don't have anything against Surgical Extraction , I swear. But with 2 Haunting Echoes , 4 Surgical Extraction really isn't necessary. I think 2 would be enough. Archive Trap is a great mill for it's Trap Cost, but otherwise it's just a weak Traumatize . Even though it's a nice combo with Ghost Quarter , with only 2 Ghost Quarter , I can't see that a playset is needed. Codex Shredder should only be cut as a last resort, and it's not worth having only one. I would advise you go with option A and put in 2 Azure Mage and 2 See Beyond .
April 30, 2013 8:27 p.m.
I like this balance of card draw. The Archive Trap
is really good in meta, as most of my friends run land search or tutors, so I really don't have to have Ghost Quarter
to make it work well. The 3x Surgical Extraction
is to early game eliminate counter spells that I can't deal with later.
The 2x See Beyond
are really useful in my playtesting so far.
Thank you so much for the suggestion!
May 1, 2013 12:09 a.m.
mr_mcmanic_man says... #13
considering that this deck is slow like all mill decks splashing green for Fog and similar abilities is defiantly worth it
May 1, 2013 1:16 p.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #14
I cannot believe I didn't think of this sooner- Echo Mage . Whenever you have an abundance of mana, level him up. It's nice that he's a fairly fast leveler. I'm already imagining the possibilities of Archive Trap for it's Trap cost and copying it not once, but twice with Echo Mage .
May 4, 2013 1:21 p.m.
I can't believe I didn't think of it either.
Will have to find room and play test like mad. I think strong potential in this deck.
May 4, 2013 3:40 p.m.
Oh the double post isn't an issue. I originally had some of those in there, but I was running into the issue that I usually had better land drops. Dropping an Evolving Wilds
or Terramorphic Expanse
is always a better option when trying to feed the crabs.
So they didn't make the cut after the addition of black.
May 7, 2013 4:26 a.m.
Valentine35 says... #20
i have a mill deck similar to this one (those glimpses and mind funerals are just so hard to get). I tried playing it with Talrand, Sky Summoner and things work out great, with all of the instants and sorcery cards to play, then you also have as abundance of chump blockers, to just keep on milling. check out my deck A Terrible Thing to Waste
May 8, 2013 7:48 a.m.
@ Valentine35 I took a look at your deck and I like it. When I play it against this one, I come out with it winning (3 out of 5). It's a nicely built deck. The times I won were when I got my exile spells going. Talrand, Sky Summoner
did play a major role in the match ups, mostly to create tokens to make conspire work with Memory Sluice
I'm considering a couple of bounce spells. Things like Boomerang
or Echoing Truth
. Something to help me out against aggro decks.
Modern Aggro seems to be claiming a victory around turn 4-5. I need something to buy a couple 2-3 more turns against them. I think that some Unsummon
style cards would be exactly what would be needed. But preferably more utility because you never know when a manland deck is going to show up.
May 8, 2013 3:40 p.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #22
You want bounce cards? I know of Boomerang , Repeal , Into the Roil , Voidwielder , Mist Raven , and AEther Adept . And don't use Unsummon ; use Vapor Snag instead.
May 8, 2013 9:23 p.m.
Also the landfall triggers become silly at that point. There would never be a reason to not have at least 1 landfall trigger a turn.
I would have very little reliable way to fetch for it.
Man, I wish that Bad River
had been reprinted. I would love run those instead of Evolving Wilds
or Terramorphic Expanse
.
May 10, 2013 4:44 p.m.
Well, this one is a bit harder than the extort one, but let's have a go, shall we? It's annoying how Hedron Crab goes really well with green effects like Explore and Rampant Growth , but oh well. Have you considered some transmute cards? Dimir Infiltrator or Muddle the Mixture can tutor a Breaking / Entering or Mind Sculpt if you want, and Tolaria West can get a good land if necessary. I may bump up the Ghost Quarter s solely because you can destroy an opponent's land, and then play an an Archive Trap or 2 after they search their library for a land, resulting in milling them for 13 or 26, plus one extra from the quarter, since another card exits their deck. Nephalia Drownyard is a cheap and powerful mill-land, but the colourless may hold back the deck, so don't run too many if any. I'm sorry if I haven't been as helpful this time, but i hope the deck goes well and +1
reawkwian says... #1
hedron crab + evolving wilds and teramorphic expanse 6 basically u play one of those 2 crab triggers then u pop them and bam crab triggers again a turn per crab all u need are spell cards that let u pull lands up rather than pay their mana cost besides that no other mill cards are really needed it stacks really quickly the rest should be control removal and draw power
April 26, 2013 4:18 p.m.