Heisenberg

Standard Apoptosis

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Apoptosis says... #1

vila_a23 thanks for the suggestions. I've adopted some of the changes you suggest and discussed my rationale for rejecting some of the others in my Update section. I would value your thoughts on what I've written.

I worry a little about the two Jace's getting in each other's way, but I suppose the situation will dictate which one I want in play at any given point.

I've taken your advice and added 3x Fiendslayer Paladin to the side, I agree that it would help a lot against aggressive decks. I'm considering Glare of Heresy and Last Breath , but why would you choose them over say Doom Blade (which is my current choice) or Devour Flesh (another card under consideration)?

I didn't add the 4th Supreme Verdict , but did add a Cyclonic Rift (see Update for discussion) and am considering it for the sideboard (versus Merciless Eviction , which was suggested by Ohthenoises).

I've also removed Gainsay , but don't have an alternative sideboard denial swap. I used to run 2x Dispel in my American control deck, so I could safely cast Sphinx's Revelation in control matchups. The idea was that Gainsay would replace it, but in hindsight the 2 CMC defeats the purpose. I suppose I could put Dispel back or 2x Swan Song , but am unsure how to tweak the sideboard right now. Thoughts? Thanks again for the advice, I appreciate it.

October 4, 2013 3:29 p.m.

I like the addition of little Jace over the shredders because little Jace also provides resilience with his +1 as well as a substantial draw advantage. I run 3 read the bones and 1 underworld connections currently in a midrange deck just to keep my hand healthy. I don't think you really need underworld connections here because you're running Jaces with the bones.

Pardon any typos. I don't know how Epochalyptik does this crap from a phone. It's making me want to punch a baby.

October 4, 2013 6:07 p.m.

Apoptosis says... #3

No bones fluffybunnypants

October 4, 2013 8:12 p.m.

Your draw from Jace should be good.

October 5, 2013 12:06 a.m.

vila_a23 says... #5

@Apoptosis, The two different jaces can sometimes mess with each other, but the new legend rules make it to where you don't have to completely use up one jace before you can play the other. You can just -2 little jace a few times then drop big jace when you gain control.

I still stand by my reasoning that Psychic Strike is significantly worse than Syncopate because you need a way to deal with powerful turn 2 plays. The mill offered by strike is minimal because when you are winning and milling people with big jace, then you don't need any help. they are just dead, no matter how many turns they have, they are just dead. This is probably a strong bias for my playstyle. I play control with the idea that I am not going to leave my chair until the round timer goes off. This allows me to make very patient and conservative plays without second guessing myself.

As far as Glare of Heresy and Last Breath , they both offer completely different angles of attack aside from just Doom Blade . For example, Glare of Heresy deals with Voice of Resurgence without them getting a token, it deals with Assemble the Legion , Detention Sphere , Heliod, God of the Sun , Fleecemane Lion , Loxodon Smiter , Boros Reckoner , and the list goes on. Glare of Heresy is added removal for random small guys that Doom Blade can't hit like Rakdos Cackler . They are both situational sideboard options and should be added based on what decks you are trying to attack.

Now for Gainsay .... I recommend Negate over any other counterspell out of the board because of what the control mirror is all about now. Many people don't realize that control mirrors are actually about Fighting over win conditions now. In the previous format, the big fight in the control mirror was for Sphinx's Revelation . This was because revelation gave you a hand full of Snapcaster Mage s and Restoration Angel s that would win the game over time and gain you a much greater advantage than your opponent. Without those cards around anymore, your opponent is just revelationing into a hand full of random 1 for 1s and such. This means that the player who first lands AEtherling will win the game 9 times out of 10. This makes it imperative that you save your permission for the big counter wars fought over cards like AEtherling and Elspeth. Negate is the best because it counters every relevant spell your opponent casts. It counters their planeswalkers and their counterspells. Gainsay may counter AEtherling , but it doesn't counter Elspeth. Dispel was the best when resolving sphinx's revelation was the biggest part of the control mirror. Now that revelation plays only a minor roll in the matchup, dispel is much worse than a counterspell that can counter planeswalkers as well as other counterspells.

October 5, 2013 12:25 a.m.

Apoptosis says... #6

vila_a23, thanks for the additional suggestions. I completely overlooked that Glare of Heresy exiles a permanent and not a creature (the problem of getting older, missing the obvious). That changes a lot in my eyes, and Glare of Heresy goes in somehow.

I've been thinking a lot about counterspells in my deck, and I think I'm going to stay with Psychic Strike over Syncopate . I used Syncopate a lot in my old American control decks along with Dissipate (sometimes Rewind too), and I really want the hard counter. I look at the primary role of my denial in the mid/late game to stop big threats, and would rather have it then. I think Psychic Strike will be easy to cast, there are no utility lands that could make having the B/U difficult (plus people will expect Syncopate or Dissolve so they will look to see whether I have 2blue and one or more mana for these counters). Playtesting Psychic Strike will give me a better chance to decide. I enjoyed your analysis of how the meta has changed and the value of Negate . It's given me things to think about. What occurred to me as I was thinking about what you wrote, is the role of Thoughtseize out of the sideboard. It's been a long time since I've used discard (actually 16 years ago with Hymn to Tourach and Hypnotic Specter ) and I sort of stuck it in there "because it's awesome" (never a good rationale). Thinking about it, Thoughtseize is for control matchups -maybe some midrange decks. So, unlike my American deck, which swapped the type of counter magic against control, Thoughtseize allows a potent disruption against control matchups. In short, I don't need to swap counterspells for control, I add Thoughtseize and remove either wraths or spot removal (since control tends to run less creatures).

I'm thinking 2x Glare of Heresy and 2x Doom Blade makes a lot of sense in the sideboard, removing the extra Cyclonic Rift and one Doom Blade . The 2x Glare of Heresy comes in against White weenies, Selesyna, Boros, and Naya. Doom Blade for RDW, Boros, and decks running a lot of Green creatures. Fiendslayer Paladin against aggro, especially Radkos. Rest in Peace for Grixis and mono black with necro. I like these modifications, it makes it more clear how I sideboard for different matchups.

What do you think? Thanks again.

October 5, 2013 4:42 p.m.

Jace, Architect of Thought is a fantastic addition as predicted. It was tooth and nail for 3 games.

Game 1: I started slow, you got Ashiok out and baited me into killing it, for which you jammed a Little Jace and got a leg up on me that I never really got back. I managed to top deck an Aurelia, the Warleader while you were otherwise entirely in control and managed to get AEtherling to stick. Combined with the new searing spear, Aurelia won the game for me, if I hadn't drawn her, I was screwed.

Game 2: You got ahead again. Mini Jace did WORK. I tried to keep up with Underworld Connections , that didn't turn out well. You board wiped ALL the times and nuked just about everything I got out and kept me honest with counters all game. I managed to resolve an Obzedat, Ghost Council but it was too little too late as you beat my face in with my own Aurelia and ulted Elspeth tokens. Ouch!

Game 3: I drew two Thoughtseize in my opening hand. I ate your Mini Jace from your hand and saved the second one. You kept my board relatively clear, but my second Thoughtseize ate a Big Jace. You managed to resolve an Ashiok that ate a Dreadbore , but you still managed to steal a blood baron from me with it. That hurt and gave you life, but I mortared it. You jammed a Mini Jace and draw into a rev. Ouch! Over six more turns, I eat just about all of your removal, and burn all sorts of my own removal on your AEtherling to get it to go away, and I finally get to keep a Desecration Demon . Eventually Dessi chips away for game.

The Codex Shredder for self mill isn't the most efficient thing ever. But it isn't too bad considering you get it back with a sack, but it is a bit over priced.

I really like the change to Esper. The first and last games came down to who drew their answer fastest and could've really gone either way. The deck is really very strong. Well done!

October 7, 2013 10:16 p.m.

Apoptosis says... #8

Thanks fluffybunnypants. They sound like some really close games and I appreciate the feedback. Any thoughts on the new sideboard? thanks again.

October 7, 2013 10:29 p.m.

@ Apoptosis: That middle game wasn't close at all. You locked me out early and I never got back. That early Mini Jace is clutch. You swung for over 18 damage in one turn lol.

I really like the precautions you take against the control mirror in the sideboard. I actually did a fourth game against my deck where I swapped in the paladin for the shredder and it did some nice work, but it wasn't terribly effective. I still swapped into 3 Duress and managed to keep you honest with Boros Reckoner .

October 7, 2013 10:41 p.m.

vila_a23 says... #10

@Apoptosis, my current sideboard is this: 3x Fiendslayer Paladin , 3x Sin Collector , 1x Blind Obedience , 2x Last Breath , 1x Negate , 2x Glare of Heresy , 3x Thoughtseize

I've chosen to load up on anti control/midrange hate because that is what my local meta is like. Sin Collector is a very powerful card in the control mirror and paired with Thoughtseize I have been able to cut down the number of Negate s to 1. I would cut all of them but I have found that you still want at least one for the control matchup and the "good Stuff" decks that try to trump you with cards like Rakdos's Return .

Blind Obedience is probably one of the best sideboard cards in my board against aggro. It turns off Whip of Erebos and Hammer of Purphoros which are very good against us. Also, gaining life for every spell you cast is very good.

October 7, 2013 11:05 p.m.

Apoptosis says... #11

fluffybunnypants what deck did you use in your playtest? The secret deck?

October 8, 2013 11:13 a.m.

@ Apoptosis: Yessir. Fluffy Secrecy (I'll think of a better name for it at somepoint).

October 8, 2013 12:07 p.m.

dude9914 says... #13

Lovely deck. I enjoyed seeing an esper deck that has integrated theros so well. The discussion in the comments was enlightening as well as I am still fairly new to the game.

That said, why not main 2 Thoughtsieze in place of the Codex Shredder ? In the early game, it is good to put your opponent off of his curve, you could see whether or not you should make a play or hold back mana for counterspell in the mid game, and it works well with Far / Away and Cyclonic Rift .

Also, maybe Council of the Absolute would do well in the side board. It would be effective against a mirror in my mind, or you could use it to make elspeth/rev cheaper allowing mana to be available for counter/removal while it provides a dude on board to protect any walkers you may have been able to cast already.

October 9, 2013 5:46 p.m.

flashter says... #14

Hey do you have all of these cards just wondering if so then you have a very valuable deck on your hands which is pretty sweet if you do also was wondering if you like the changes I made to my deck let me know what you think of if . Thanks

October 9, 2013 6:30 p.m.

Apoptosis says... #15

Thanks guys for the feedback vila_a23 and dude9914. That's an interesting suggestion to mainboard: 2x Thoughtseize over Codex Shredder . The latter is in there because of the ability to recycle something out of the graveyard. In playtesting against other tappedout decks it's been useful in grabbing a wrath, counterspell, or even a planeswalker back from the graveyard. But dude9914, that's a damn fine suggestion. I'll probably take it, but right now I'm just not sure. It a question of proactively removing a threat versus being able to adapt to one. Council of the Absolute , that's a card that I haven't thought about in awhile and deserves another look. I wouldn't be surprised if most opponents sided out their spot removal after game one. vila_a23 thanks for sharing the sideboard info, Blind Obedience deserves a look and would be key in some matchups and I still need to tweak mine. Moving 2x Thoughtseize mainboard would free us some slots.

flashter, either I have all of the cards or have arranged to receive them through trades on tappedout. I would really like to take this deck out next Monday night.

October 9, 2013 8:12 p.m.

flashter says... #16

Nice, the deck looks solid bringing in Thoughtseize would be a great edition to the main board over the Codex Shredder as you can just mill with Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver after using Azorius Charm on a threat putting it to the top then taking said threat if you wanted to all in all this deck is sweet keep brewing up gold my friend as you do.

October 9, 2013 10:35 p.m.

Vindemiatrixx says... #17

You wanted feedback you got it! This deck is incredible! I would be so nervous running few creatures but Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver and Elspeth, Sun's Champion can really help you out there! Alot of nice cards in this deck, if I could afford it I totally would roll with a deck like this! Im glad mine held its own against it! Very very nice! +1 from me

October 10, 2013 1:27 a.m.

mpeach1 says... #18

I really like this deck. +1 for the great Heisenberg

October 10, 2013 3:36 p.m.

ColeyPTrain says... #19

oh Snapcaster:( he is so thoroughly missed he will have a wonderful time in the modern world

October 12, 2013 11:19 a.m.

Mrd671 says... #20

Awesome and thorough description!

flashter sent me so +1. Check out my Esper deck.

Thought I don't have more Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver and Jace, Architect of Thought . Not to mention no Elspeth, Sun's Champion .

The thing I would suggest for a good removal spell would be Warped Physique for Esper decks.

October 13, 2013 2:45 p.m.

Apoptosis says... #21

Just one Lifebane Zombie away from having the whole deck assembled, come on eBay seller get that zombie to me, I want to take this deck oh to play next week!

October 16, 2013 6:30 p.m.

flashter says... #22

Nice I think you will get it I have faith.

October 16, 2013 6:36 p.m.

infinitemana says... #23

In your sidboarding description, you dont mention gruul/naya midrage or green/blue devotion. Also, as soon as you have the deck, Id love to hear how it does.

October 16, 2013 6:40 p.m.

Apoptosis says... #24

I haven't had time to cover all of the matchups and I'm not exactly sure of what the current builds will be.

October 16, 2013 8:37 p.m.

rakdosrunner says... #25

Apoptosis hey I felt like I would be able to give you some killer info but after looking at your deck it is pretty nasty lol honestly I'm a little surprised at the 3-0 play test you seem to have all the counter/hate that I fear. I have nothing to say except maybe drop 1 of the jace adept and throw in another sphinx revelation. That card usually is the difference between a win or a lose for me and control.

+1 great deck ha

October 17, 2013 11:16 a.m.

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