Thanks rakdosrunner, I was a bit surprised too. I don't think I drew a single Supreme Verdict any of the games, which can make a big difference. Two games I definitely didn't have enough removal, but was able to stabilize somewhat. Chandra, Pyromaster helped to keep you from gasing out one game and in one other game Rakdos's Return really nailed it by destroying my hand, which was full of draw one turn away.

Jace, Memory Adept definitely comes out after game 1 against you, but I don't think Sphinx's Revelation goes to 4 either. I think it actually goes to 2x. Starting with it "in hand" is really bad against you because I'll be dead by T5-6 when I can realistically cast it. I'd much rather start with extra removal, a Fiendslayer Paladin , or that 4th land leading to a T4 Supreme Verdict , all of which are much more important.

Thanks for the +1 too!

No problem, and You're right I didn't see the Fiendslayer Paladin , I was trying to think of what you had already that concerned me. FS paladin is a great card against red black aggro, Supreme Verdict also runs great turn four after i've emptied my hand of all my creatures lol As surprising as it may sound, maybe look into side boarding in the two Thoughtsieze as well, or at least one more. It isn't much of a card to throw out right away against aggro, but turn 4 after you supreme it really hurts what is left in my hand considering it'll probably be the only creature till I start top decking. And by that time you would easily be able to handle little one and two drop creatures.

Against Rakdos around, maybe Shrivel ? It also might not be too bad of a side against bant agro. But it is so matchup specific I don't know if it would be worth it for a side board slot.

Hey Apoptosis you ever consider Reap Intellect ? It's a little expensive, but would completely mess up someone's game if you cast it for even 5

Honestly, I hadn't considered it because of the high CMC. It might have a place in control matchups, but I would never run it more then 1-2x because of the cost. I think Thoughtseize does a better job of disruption for what my deck wants to do. I'm not looking to wipe out their hand, just take out the threats that really hurt my deck the most At that moment. I'll usually have better draw and solutions to Most threats, and Thoughtseize does the job in removing the threat i like the least. I'd like to know what other dimir or esper control players thing about Reap Intellect before trying it out. My instinct says the high CMC. Makes it unplayable in a competitive environment.

Without a doubt never more than 1or 2, I personally run 2 in my mill deck Library killer

Yeah Mr. White! Yeah science! +1!

Damn you work, no magic for me tonight at my LGS.

:(( sadsauce

personally 4 of Supreme Verdict is a must and i like 3 Thoughtseize as you want them early to really get a good effect from it. Jace, Memory Adept i would drop to 1 in the side, Psychic Strike has no real benefit over Dissolve but i like Syncopate . But it works and it looks nice. +1

if i had the money this would be my standard deck +1

Thanks for the suggestion quickstream, I'm thinking about it. I haven't had time to take this deck out to my LGS yet. But last rotation I ran several versions o f American control, and I found that 4x Supreme Verdict was too many (but then again we had Snapcaster Mage ).

Jace, Memory Adept is a card that's somewhat on the old chopping block. It let's me have mill as a viable win-con, which synergizes nicely with Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver and I like having multiple win-cons. But I'm weighing it's value against Blood Baron of Vizkopa , which seems to really shine against some matchups where I could use him.

I like Psychic Strike , it's easy to cast in this deck and people expect Dissolve or Syncopate (so they look for 2x blue +1 or having more mana before casting). Leaving only one blue open while holding Psychic Strike is great to get the hard counter when the opponent had lots of mana and thought they could cast without fear,

I think and this is just my opinion you may be trying to do too much either your gonna mill as your main win condition or kill but not both working both strategies could be counter productive. I strongly recommend taking both Jace, Memory Adept out and adding 2 more Jace, Architect of Thought as it is the glue for this and most esper decks leading you to Sphinx's Revelation and then to victory. also I would cut one Hero's Downfall changing it to an extra Far / Away since your running a full set of Detention Sphere planeswalkers shouldn't be a problem. I would change both Psychic Strike to Syncopate and last Since you already have two 6 mana win cons in Elspeth, Sun's Champion Change AEtherling to Blood Baron of Vizkopa which is a 5 drop that's a real pain for most decks to deal with.

Thanks BradMullins for the feedback.

I might cut Jace, Memory Adept , which is ironic as it was my first thought when making an esper deck. He's devastating against control matchups and most midrange decks. Certainly he comes out against aggro. But he has a nice synergy with Ashiok and Psychic Strike

If he were to come out permanently, I would probably mainboard +1 Jace, Architect of Thought and +1 Thoughtseize , maybe Blood Baron of Vizkopa . I've never used the baron, except when Ashiok has stolen him (which was awesome). So I'm not sure. Right now I only own 2x Jace, Architect of Thought and one Blood Baron of Vizkopa . With the latter's recent price jump, I'm kicking myself for having gotten only 2x when he was at $10. Anyway, I want to see how this version does before I kick out Jace, Memory Adept and buy another Jace, Architect of Thought , but you're right in that I may end up going that direction.

I strongly disagree about cutting one Hero's Downfall for another Far / Away . "Far" is just tempo and "away" let's your opponent decide, so I don't want to use Far / Away before T5 if possible, rather the other spot removal and wrath limits the presence of creatures on the battlefield prior to relying on Far / Away . Hero's Downfall is too good not to run at 3x: the flexibility let's me hit planeswalkers and all creatures (as opposed to Doom Blade ). Yes, Detention Sphere also takes out planeswalkers, but it also has use against artifacts/enchantments/creatures. I believe that 3x Hero's Downfall plus 4x Detention Sphere gives me the greatest flexibility against the widest array of threats. As a control player I hate being stuck with the wrong removal in hand. Before the last rotation I was playing American control and remember a matchup where I held both Supreme Verdict and Mizzium Mortars and my opponent resolved Liliana of the Veil (Junk rites), and I sat there losing card advantage to her discard, powerless to kill her. I firmly believe flexibility = win, and this combo gives me the greatest flexibility.

Other people have suggested switching Psychic Strike to Syncopate (see my response to vila_a23 on Oct 5th above). Here's why I'm keeping Psychic Strike :
1. Opponents expect Dissolve and Syncopate so they look whether I have two blue mana plus one, or whether they will have enough extra mana to get over Syncopate . Psychic Strike is sneaky in that it's unexpected. I can intentionally leave only one blue plus two mana to bait an opponent into walking into my hard counter.
2. Psychic Strike is extremely easy for me to cast, easier then Dissolve
3. Psychic Strike is a hard counter, Syncopate is not. The exile component of Syncopate was really important when the Innistrad block was standard and the flashback mechanic was everywhere. Graveyard use is much more limited now: the scavenge mechanic and "when creature dies" are the only two mechanics of note. Psychic Strike doesn't trigger the latter and scavenge is a much more restricted mechanic then flashback. This means the exile component is much less important and the hard counter is better then the situational counter that Syncopate , Negate , etc. provide. Again, control wants the greatest flexibility possible. Psychic Strike provides it.
4. Psychic Strike causes top two cards of the library into the graveyard. A.) This is a nice "screw you" to the scry mechanic. B.) It helps mill as a win-con (mill is the least important reason why I use it, everything else I said is more important) Psychic Strike absolutely stays.

Interesting idea on Blood Baron of Vizkopa . I only have 1 so I've never used him but he can be a pain. He's really easy for Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver to steal as early as T4, so mainboard against the mirror is a double edged sword, because he's extremely hard for me to deal with when he's on my opponent's side. My options are: counter, denial (Thoughtseize and Lifebane Zombie out of the sideboard), mill/exile, wrath, Far / Away or bounce (Cyclonic Rift ). So while I do have answers, he's a pain. Blood Baron is definitely on my radar and I'm thinking about him. Whether he's better then AEtherling is debatable. I would never drop AEtherling T6 unless I'm playing against mono-white, mon-green, or Selesnya. But once out he's such a strong win-con, I'll leave him at 1x. This isn't true for Elspeth, Sun's Champion . I'll play her T6 in many situations as I'll get instant value with either her +1 or -3.

Anyway, you might be correct that 2x Jace, Memory Adept , 2x Elspeth, Sun's Champion and 1x AEtherling is one too many high CMC win-cons, but in my playtesting against other decks here on tapped out, it's rare that I draw too many in my opening hand (which is the biggest concern). It does add resiliency in that I can win multiple ways and switching mid-game isn't usually a problem. If we get to T8 and I have card advantage, my opponent is in trouble unless they're playing a control deck. And if it's a control deck and I resolve Jace, Memory Adept game 1, many times that equates to a win.

former's price jump (Jace, not the Baron)

Jace, Architect of Thought should drop in around 6 to 7 months lol they are making a dual deck version of the card next year which will ruin the value of it I know that this is probably irrelevant to you now but is something to think about in trades and before purchasing with that said I know in my deck he is priceless and would shill be in there if he was $50.00

I have some thought, why not run Render Silent instead of Psychic Strike ?

I'd cut Psychic Strike s for more Dissolve s. I'f found the scry is very helpful. I'd also cut Jace, Memory Adept for Jace, Architect of Thought s, he card advantage is just bonkers. I'd also cut Rest in Peace from the sideboard, re-animator is not very big anymore, for Gainsay to side in against mono-blue. Finally, I'd cut 1 Hero's Downfall for Supreme Verdict , because I've found I need the board wipe quite often. Looks very, very, strong, +1

+1 for the name and description alone but none the less great deck.. this is the fall back for mine.. I like the white splash for control.. i'm trying to splash red could you spare any advice?

A Different kind of Grixis 1st Place @ FNM

So I'm not so happy how my deck performs against Orzhov or Junk. Basically, Thoughtseize and Sin Collector really destroy me and I don't have enough protection for Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver to protect him (albeit nothing saves him from Abrupt Decay .) I can make those matches stretch, but am not consistently winning, even with the sideboard. I'm not sure of the solution, but the problem is that Read the Bones is just amazing draw power for an opponent and it outperforms Jace, Architect of Thought , which is a surprise. I might mainboard it.. Plus these decks pack enough hand disruption plus threats to get around my removal. I'm still looking for the answer, but one thought it to narrow my wincon and get better counterspells. I may go back to Codex Shredder and Jace, Memory Adept to push mill, pack more counterspells mainboard, and better counter/spot removal in the side. Its not working as configured and I think it's because I'm trying to do too much. Not sure. As always suggestions are always appreciated.

I love how this deck is so detailed in terms of match-ups and how to play with it! You sir have done a wonderful job, definitely +1.The only fear I have about your deck is the single AEtherling . Would it perhaps be safer to add another and remove one Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver ? I imagine AEtherling definitely being a game-winner in this deck.Do check out my own competitive deck if you can :) good luck in future games!

Magnvs thank you for the complement. The first version of this deck was built around Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver and Jace, Architect of Thought to win primarily through mill and as the deck evolved that win-con diminished and eventually vanished except via the sideboard.

You are correct that in this version of the deck Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver might not have a home long term. When I playtest against the top net decks that have hand disruption (e.g. The Current Orzhov, B/W/G, and probably monoBlack), I think I have issues. I've mainly playtested against Orzhov (because I lost to that at my LGS last week), and it outdraws me with Read the Bones and kills me with Thoughtseize and Sin Collector , picking me apart. Don't get me wrong, in these matchups the games go long, but I usually seem to run out of steam before they do. I'm guessing that the main problem is having too many win-con without enough counters to protect them. Switching to AEtherling over Elspeth is one possibility and removing Ashiok is another strong possibility. But if, I'm going to go that way I almost think I should retool the whole deck, limit my removal, add distruption, and add bombs like Desecration Demon backed up with counterspells to keep them alive.

To be honest, it makes me sad because that wasn't what I envisioned and I like the idea of winning through mill. It's absolutely terrifying to have both Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver and Jace, Memory Adept tearing through your library. But for that to work, the deck absolutely needs:
1. To outdraw the black decks that have severl hand disruption
2. Lots of wraths to protect the board
3. Lots of counters to protect the planeswalkers

I've put together a prototype mill version of the deck here:

The mill version actually does pretty good against The Current Orzhov (at least pre-sideboard), but am not sure it can hold up to aggro like the version on this page is able to. Regardless, I'm going to be too swamped to go to my LGS this week, but will be exploring both options. Honestly, I want to get back to mill so that's probably where I will push, but acknowledge that refining this version will probably make the most competitive deck between the two.

Suggestions are always appreciated.

+1 for Breaking Bad reference.

If you want to playtest against just some fun decks this one should make you chuckle (and you should completely destroy it) Elite Tactics if you want it to be slightly more competitive playtest the guildgates as scry/shock lands.

Also this one might actually put up a fight (probably not though, your deck is very well put together)

Lets Break Ciphers Complete

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Standard Lord007

Playtest

Just a couple of fun decks for you to playtest against:

Elite Tactics You should completely destroy it but G2 with all negates and dispels mainboarded and you could even play as though it had scry/shocklands it might give you a run for your money just on pure weirdness

Lets Break Ciphers Complete more of a serious playtest suggestion. This deck is decent if I can get a good enough start and it might be different enough that it wins once or twice, you'll probably still destroy both but I thought I'd put them out there for you