mrbloo1848 says... #2
DoomsdayXIII, it indeed was a fun match! I have played him before so I was aware that it wasn't something he does on a regular basis. It was just a freak accident, brain-fart-ish misplay that costed him the game and he was aware of the fact as soon as he realized what he had done.
October 6, 2013 9:58 a.m.
Krimson_Knight says... #3
In my deck Dega Cruel Control, I have been experimenting with Hundred-Handed One . What do you think of him as a creature? I think he's a decent fordrop and his monstrous ability is pretty cool
October 6, 2013 10:33 a.m.
I think u should add Rakdos Charm cuz u can exile all cards in a players graveyard and/or Devout Invocation cuz u can make a flying army! :-)
October 6, 2013 10:45 a.m.
mrbloo1848 says... #5
I actually thought about running Hundred-Handed One in the main, then decided against it in favor of other cards. He is definitely a solid card especially in a meta full of aggro.
Rakdos Charm isn't that great now that most popular graveyard techs have been rotated out. Devout Invocation costs way too much and works much better in a token/swarm deck.
At least you gave each card a reason this time, thanks! :)
October 6, 2013 4:03 p.m.
If you were to replace Aurelia I would just throw in Stormbreath Dragon in her place. Still get the haste out of it, it can be a 7/7 flyer and of course, pro white, gotta love anti Detention Sphere
October 8, 2013 1:08 a.m.
Stevie_pleezy says... #8
Hey, have you ever thought of having 4 demons and just running 2 blood barons. Then you can keep Aurelia in. I just played the California states tournament In LA with a similar deck, but without Aurelia. Desecration Demon I would say won me most of my games, I placed top 8 btw. Because of your list, I am trying out Aurelia though and she seems like a power house. The reason behind added more demons is to basically bait out their kill spell early so obzedat, blood baron and Aurelia can resolve later. If they can't deal with him you still have a 6/6 flying beat stick that makes them sac creatures. Just a thought :)
October 8, 2013 3:49 a.m.
mrbloo1848 says... #9
Stevie_pleezy, I actually have, pretty much for that reason you just mentioned, to bait removals and sweepers before my real finishers hit the board! Aurelia, the Warleader is a really good finisher and I've used her to great success before rotation. However, she's becoming a bit too slow for the meta and I am slowly phasing her out in favor of cheaper creatures that serve similar roles, in this case Stormbreath Dragon , which is a very strong pick right now and he possibly will find this deck a permanent home in near future. I am definitely keeping going up to a full set of demons in mind, though!
The problem with running the full-Desecration Demon strategy is that my meta is quite heavy with RDWs, and Desecration Demon is relatively bad against them or any swarm-based aggro in general (some people disagree, but this is just from experience) since they basically can choose to never let him block by tossing a cheap creature at him every turn. Of course, this can be remedied by the abundance of removals in the main and the side to make it more painful for them to do so, but it is still the risk of investing too heavy into a risky creature like Desecration Demon . Congrats on your top 8 and thanks for the suggestion! :)
October 8, 2013 4:31 a.m.
bradcoish23 says... #10
Would like to know how it has played against Esper Control?
October 10, 2013 12:01 a.m.
mrbloo1848 says... #11
bradcoish23, I haven't yet gotten a chance to play against Esper control since rotation, but with my experience with control matchups and using BWR in general, I'd make the following predictions:
I probably will have a losing record for game 1's, since I still am relatively weak to Sphinx's Revelation and my main board is currently tuned more towards anti-aggro. I also lack a way to preemptively deal with AEtherling in the mainboard so if he does resolve, it will be an uphill race unless I already have a decent board going.
However, my sideboard cranks my deck back towards its original anti-control build and has a much much better chance. Hitting an early Slaughter Games on Sphinx's Revelation will likely win me the game since I can already keep up with the draws using Read the Bones and Underworld Connections . Not to mention that Blood Baron of Vizkopa is protected from everything they run except sweeps and counterspells (He may sometimes be hit by a stray Far , but there are ways to play around this).
TL;DR Esper is a very strong control deck right now, but it's not impossible to beat. I will more likely than not end up with a 2-1 win in most cases (of course this is biased, but I'm just saying the above based on my experience with control matchups)
October 10, 2013 12:27 a.m.
jimaejackel says... #12
Well mrbloo1848 I checked out and played at The Game Academy - Orlando and I was sorely disappointed. The players and the worker/judge just totally disregarded DCI rules and allowed manipulation of the fourth round to make certain people make the top 4. I doubt this is the first time this has happened. I only post this here to warn you as I am a fan of your decks and know you play there. A full description is listed under the store's profile on this site.
October 10, 2013 1:02 a.m.
mrbloo1848 says... #13
jimaejackel, I'm sorry that that happened. It made a terrible first impression for you. I personally would have been upset as well especially if I was one of the 2-2s that got cut out of the running as a result of the "agreement" and it does constitute unsportsmanlike conduct. I would have fought for that (if you hadn't, but I assume you did). It really sucks that you had to end your first (and possibly last) experience at TGA that way :( If either I or Jimhawk were there, we definitely would have had something to say about the misconduct.
In their defense (other than any possible incompetence of the person in charge of the tournament, I am guessing there really wasn't a judge present and it was just the cashier), this was the Wednesday night standard tournament as opposed to FNM so it was generally understood that the rules enforcement level was going to be relatively lenient. With that said, it still was highly unsportsmanlike (especially if that "agreement" happened AFTER a match had already been played out) to alter the match result that way. I again apologize on behalf of TGA for that crappy experience and I hope you either give it another chance. I don't work for the place, but it normally is pretty great and the people there are just like other stores - a mix between good players and unsportsmanlike players. :(
October 10, 2013 1:46 a.m.
jimaejackel says... #14
I won' talk about it anymore as this is not the place to do so. But not only did it skin me out of a chance, as both my tie breakers were from the top two (4-0 & 3-1) but also it cheated other players out of a probable spot. I know in much larger tournaments that those tie breakers really matter. I am for having fun and an easy going guy (you just tapped for that wrong, that's ok you can change how you tapped or w/e, hell I even say go ahead a draw seven again when all land/no land, instead of having my opponent draw six cause I want a good game) but I follow the rules when it comes to scores/results.
October 10, 2013 2:36 a.m.
mrbloo1848 says... #15
Yeah. However, it was your responsibility to take it up to TO or judge if you felt what happened was unsportsmanlike. It still was frowned upon, but the people who got screwed out of running cheated themselves out of the opportunity if they said nothing about it (if you didn't, that is). Either way, it still sucks.
October 10, 2013 2:56 a.m.
jimaejackel says... #16
Oh I did try but they didn't care. I'm not going to start some violence over cards. I already contacted wizards and filed the report, took about twenty minutes talking to someone over the phone; sadly I was told it was not the first but the 14th complaint in the last six months about the store to wizards regarding tournaments all with the SAME incident!! If they hold 2 "FNM's" a week that's 8 a month, so that's 48 tournaments and 14/48 is 30%, I just don't know what to say.
Got the store owners name/phone number, calling him tomorrow also.
October 10, 2013 3:26 a.m.
mrbloo1848 says... #17
Good. The owners should be reasonable enough to hear what you have to say and do something about it.
October 10, 2013 3:53 a.m.
This is a very powerful deck. I always love midrange strategies because they generally offer the best of both control and agro. It's less consistent than agro, but more consistent than control. I will say, the mana seems a bit painful for this deck; that is the only thing which isn't attractive. The spell choice, however, seems quite nice, especially the use of stronger removal at the cost of not having it at instant speed. It's a drawback of course, but it seems incredibly worth it. Mizzium Mortars may prove to be one of the better cards to be played in Standard, and Dreadbore may also find a better home than It's seen. Since I'm here, I will make a suggestion: I don't believe Hero's Downfall is very necessary. The mana requirement seems very painful when it could be just two more Dreadbore . +1, really like the deck :)
October 10, 2013 10:02 a.m.
mrbloo1848 says... #19
Hero's Downfall has proven to be more of an addition than a liability so far. Yes, I do agree that the double black can be hard to get off at times, but having the option to remove a creature or, better yet, a planeswalker, at instant speed is huge especially in control matchups.
October 10, 2013 12:38 p.m.
Stevie_pleezy says... #20
Yeah, I tried out Aurelia and I think that more removal is the way to go instead of her. Thanks I really appreciate it :) Yeah RDW's is everywhere atm, but my real problem it seems is, esper and azorious control. I really focus on boarding for them. RDW's is not really a problem because of Reckoner and anger of the gods. Do you have a problem with esper and azorious control?
October 10, 2013 6:28 p.m.
mrbloo1848 says... #21
No problems so far. Other than the card choices, it's mostly the matter of knowing what to play and when to play it. Even a good control player will be forced to leave open a few windows of opportunity for you to resolve a key card unopposed. That gives them a threat to spend resources to deal with while you use the distraction to put down more threats. You really cannot afford losing a turn to UWx control decks, for they will really punish you for it. Be mindful of any possible counterspells they may be holding and assume worst case scenario. Sometimes you have to cast a Blood Baron of Vizkopa to bait a counter/removal so that you can more easily resolve Obzedat, Ghost Council (and try not to attack with him unless they are tapped out or don't have enough mana open for Azorius Charm or Celestial Flare ).
TL;DR The only way to do well (or at least increase your chance) against control decks is to have a lot of practice in the matchup under your belt. It's a hard matchup, but not impossible.
October 10, 2013 7:03 p.m.
bradcoish23 says... #22
My city is overrun right now by esper control. Seems like 1 in every 3 players are playing it. The general game plays out as a slow grinder, then control looks like its on the verge of losing, then sphinx's rev. This we've all seen, this we all know. What is surprising me is that it seems Elspeth is the new finisher. I cannot wait to test this deck this week against Esper Control and see how it plays. This sideboard looks so sweet for the Esper match, I agree with you game one will be hard but i like your chances after that. Thanks for the great build.
October 10, 2013 9:42 p.m.
mrbloo1848 says... #23
Thank you! Let me know how it goes! It is true that Esper control and UWx control decks in general much prefer to take the game long so that they can multiply their card advantage. Elspeth, Sun's Champion is indeed their new finisher, along with the current one, AEtherling and/or Obzedat, Ghost Council .
Sideboard recommendations against Azorius and Esper:
-2 Dreadbore - sorcery speed planeswalker removal is extremely risky and as I mentioned before, you absolutely cannot afford to lose a turn against these decks
-2 Mizzium Mortars - this is useless in almost all cases
-1 Rakdos's Return - again, sorcery spells too risky and a good control player will never tap out at the time where this could be cast for any significant amount
-3 Anger of the Gods - see: Mizzium Mortars
-2 Chained to the Rocks - see above
-1 Boros Reckoner - now, this is because we need one more out of the main to accommodate our 11-card side-in (we do need all the advantage we can get) and he is the weakest link of all creatures. He has no protection of his own and his redirect ability is useless against UW, not to mention that he dies to the easily-anticipated side-in Doom Blade .
+2 Slaughter Games - This is the card that will level the playing field. You usually want to cast this as soon as you can (it can't be countered so you don't have to worry about that) to maximize the benefit. Your priority target is Sphinx's Revelation , since that card alone will cost you the game if cast for anything more than 4-5. If you do draw into the second one, you may name AEtherling /Obzedat, Ghost Council or other potential hard-to-remove threats that you saw during your first search-through (always make a mental note of what could be your next Slaughter target as you search the first time).
+3 Thoughtseize - Another card that will help you early and even late. Always keep note of what they had when this resolves and cross off the cards as they're played. It helps you plan your attacks and play around their answers.
+1 Boros Charm - Always leave enough mana open for this once you get your board going. You want to take your time and not overextend while still maintaining pressure. This can also be used to shoot 4 straight to the dome especially in response to their using Sphinx's Revelation while they're at 4 or below. This also helps when you're racing an AEtherling .
+2 Glare of Heresy - this will be your answer to Elspeth, Sun's Champion or, more importantly, Detention Sphere and/or Blind Obedience .
+2 Wear / Tear - again, Detention Sphere , Blind Obedience , Haunted Plate Mail , etc. Very useful and much better to have than whatever's coming out for it.
+1 Underworld Connections - this card is stupid, especially with Read the Bones . You have ways to gain life back (and they need time to set up) so you can relatively aggressively use your life total as resource to get more cards. Slap it on a basic land and use it at the end of their turn as needed. It's ridiculous. A good control player will want to Detention Sphere it as soon as they can safely do so, but that's one less for whatever else you're running.
Remember, you gain a crapload amount of advantage post-board so abuse that advantage and teach 'em who's boss! :)
October 10, 2013 10:12 p.m.
@mrbloo1848 Took 2nd at FNM tonight with a similar variation of this deck. Just thought i'd update you with how good these colors are.
October 11, 2013 11:23 p.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #25
+1 you've managed to win the internet again!
mrbloo1848 says... #1
Krimson_Knight, that is a good question! Here's the reasoning behind this:
Rakdos Keyrune is one of those cards that you want to see only one of during the course of a game, since it has a relatively low impact on the board state compared to other 3-cmc cards. I'd be much happier if I draw a Boros Reckoner or Hero's Downfall (against relevant opponents) than if I draw a Rakdos Keyrune or worse, a second Rakdos Keyrune . Keep in mind that you'd have to pay 2 mana to activate him, and spend a third mana (by tapping itself) to attack, so it does tie up your resources quite a bit, not to mention the fact that once it becomes a creature, it is very vulnerable and your opponent's kill spell is now "destroy target attacking/blocking creature and destroy target mana source its controller controls", which is bad. It's a very nice card to have, but you really don't want to go out of your way by cutting other, more impactful, cards to have more of it or to have a chance of seeing more of it in your deck. As you play the deck more, you'll start noticing that you get that "meh" feeling when you draw into it later in the game where mana is no longer a problem. On the other hand, you do get the "oh cool I can use this" feeling when you have it in your hand on turn 3. Of course, whether to play it depends on what else you have in your hand and what matchup you're in. Keep in mind that it effectively costs only two mana to play as long as your next spell uses a black or a red mana. In aggro matchups, you only want to play this ONLY when you really have nothing else to play, since this does jack squat for your early anti-aggro game, especially when that means tying up your 3 mana (well, two) that you could use for a kill spell or a sweeper or a blocker just to have one more mana for your finishers. RDWs hit critical mass around turns 3-4 so you must wipe them down by then or they will quickly overwhelm you. This little keyrune doesn't do that. It is here solely to accelerate your mana and as a little reach-booster when you're running low on threats (you usually don't) or you need that extra few points of damage in (great with lifelink from the whip if it helps you stay alive).
It's pretty much the same reason why I run only one Whip of Erebos . You really want to see only one of it during a game. It's very nice to have at the right time, but it isn't mandatory and you won't cry tears of rage and flip the table if you don't find it or if it gets removed (it usually doesn't. Most people don't think twice about a little keyrune or a whip since neither of them are a threat on their own). This doesn't mean that it's bad, mind you.
That could have been unnecessarily long. TL;DR it's nice to have but you don't want more than one of it.
October 6, 2013 9:54 a.m.