mrbloo1848 says... #2
I have used Boros Charm in my pre-rotation version when it ran more creatures (to much success). With the new version, some things changed.
You have to take into account a few facts that prevent Boros Charm from performing at its full potential:
Half of our creatures across both of your boards have protection against Boros Charm (4 Blood Baron, 2 Stormbreath, and 2 Soldiers). That means the double strike mode only works on half of our creatures, and 5 out of those 8 are in the mainboard, which means we can pretty much rule that mode out considering most of the things that it CAN target either don't hit that hard or usually doesn't even attack at all.
We already run a set of Hero's Downfall which works much more reliably in terms of planeswalker removal, not to mention that we also have Warleader's Helix for that job as well (and also for that 4-point finisher).
The creatures that CAN be protected by it are mostly already protected thanks to their own ability. Not only that, you usually tap out or only have one mana left over at the time you need to play the spell (playing a stormbreath or an obzedat or a blood baron on turn 7 is just too slow, especially against decks that have tools to destroy these creatures like monoblack or esper). Also, I don't run many other permanents that this thing can protect. This means that the indestructible mode also isn't abused the same way Boros Aggro does.
As for Haunted Plate Mail , the card works much better in a control deck where you really don't control any creatures about 95% of the time (save the few times with AEtherling and/or sideboarded Blood Baron of Vizkopa or soldier tokens), which allows it to be the evasive 4/4 that it is intended to be. Also consider that its equip cost is 4. This means that the soonest you can slap this thing onto someone (likely Boros Reckoner , is turn 5. What does this do? This locks up our 5-drop window in exchange for a CHANCE at a 7/7 that could very easily be killed in response to us paying the equip cost (especially that far into the game in a meta that all kill spells usually run between 2-3 mana) AND that can still be killed by just a kill spell. I can see the appeal in control matchups, but the benefit just isn't enough to justify even one slot for it, at least not in this list.
Remember that in a control matchup, we play this deck like Death and Taxes deck in Legacy (at least in a remote way), which means we play relatively aggro with tons of disruption and annoying sticky threats. We side out Boros Reckoner against UWx control (since they are just a 3/3 with restrictive mana cost in that matchup) and we substitute that early game with playing more spells like Sin Collector and Thoughtseize and Underworld Connections and Soldier of the Pantheon to either remove any answers OR force answers. They eventually HAVE to remove those 2/1's somehow, and sometimes that means a Supreme Verdict cast before our beaters come out. Also remember that we still have Stormbreath Dragon which is immune to a lot of conventional removals control run save the black kill spells. When you play against control, you basically create a gauntlet lineup of creatures to play, with the most important ones saved for last (or when they tap out), to force your way through counters and removals. This way, you eventually get one or two to stick and start taking a few points off of them while they dig for answers. You have to keep them playing defense (or at least hope your draws help you to) so that they have no time to safely resolve something scary like a big Sphinx's Revelation or an AEtherling with mana open. Control is one of the harder matchups for this deck, but the matchup is not hopeless.
P.S. If I end up keeping Boros Reckoner AND Anger of the Gods in the deck after game 1, it is most likely that I'm playing a green devotion or an aggro deck, both cases of which I just Anger the board and either redirect 3 to the face or use the 3 to kill a bigger creature for a clean wipe (Both Polukranos, World Eater and Arbor Colossus fall within this kill range before they become monstrous) or use the 3 to pop a planeswalker. It is hardly a loss when used that way.
December 5, 2013 1:11 p.m.
Wow, another great response. I love the detailed analysis.
December 5, 2013 8:04 p.m.
have you considered running some High Priest of Penance for a similar Anger of the Gods +Boros Reckoner effect. The reason being it can hit permanents full stop, that way you're not caught by mass enchantments or anything in the first match. If it's not mass enchantments then you could just side it out if you want.
December 7, 2013 3:02 p.m.
Man this deck seems amazing man! I love to run these colors although I don't have the stormbreaths and only have 1 blood baron. I really like how you are running this I am def gonna try to get my deck to look like this. You definitely get a +1 up vote for this :)
December 8, 2013 11:13 p.m.
KingConquer says... #6
What would you take out of the main when you go in side boarding Soldier of the Pantheon ? Also I feel that against the Mono Black decks Dark Betrayal would be the top sideboard card.
December 9, 2013 8:52 p.m.
mrbloo1848 says... #7
Dark Betrayal is too narrow for my meta, which has recently begun to shy away from monoblack and more towards other archetypes.
Soldier of the Pantheon comes in almost strictly against control decks (Esper/America/etc.) and Selesnya decks.
This is what I do against American Control:
-2 Dreadbore
-1 Hero's Downfall (if you didn't see too many planeswalkers)
+2 Slaughter Games - name Sphinx's Revelation or AEtherling /Detention Sphere depending on your board state and what you've seen in their hand, but most of the time I prioritize Sphinx.
+2 Pithing Needle - Name planeswalkers of choice with this card, or AEtherling .
+1 Thoughtseize - Use these aggressively. Control decks play mostly answers and not threats.
+1 Sire Of Insanity - Play this when you feel that it is safe to do so OR when you need it to force a removal/counterspell in order to resolve a different threat
+1 Erebos, God of the Dead - Haven't drawn into him yet, but he's pretty self-explanatory.
+1 Assemble the Legion - Make sure you attempt to resolve this as best you can. I'd rather have this resolve than Obzedat, Ghost Council .
+2 Wear / Tear - Save these for the D-Spheres
Against Esper, you hold the Mizzium Mortars for Blood Baron of Vizkopa and all 4 Hero's Downfall for Obzedat, Ghost Council . You can choose to not side in Soldier of the Pantheon in this case due to their having monocolored removals.
Against Selesnya (relatively simple sideboard), I did the following:
-1 Rakdos Keyrune - A lot of their things will either have trample or can be given trample, this is bad for the key.
-1 Assemble the Legion - Same reason as above. Also too slow.
-1 Obzedat, Ghost Council - He's the only one in our deck that can get hit by Selesnya Charm . He's an auto-out against GWx.
+1 Blood Baron of Vizkopa - He and the dragon will be your BFFs in this matchup.
+2 Soldier of the Pantheon - This guy has protection from almost everything they run.
Often, I also decide to do
-2 Rakdos's Return - due to their running a full set of Loxodon Smiter s, this card can backfire hard for you.
In which case, I'd add either 1 or 2 Pithing Needle (naming Scavenging Ooze , Fleecemane Lion , or anything else they run like Bow of Nylea ) and possibly the Thoughtseize .
Hope that helped!
December 10, 2013 6:03 a.m.
mephisto_pheles says... #8
it looks like a very good deck, looks very similar to my own, Obzedat and Baron, BFF's, i would make the sideboard more solid, just 4 or 5 cards, not 8. definitely a +1
December 11, 2013 2:11 p.m.
mrbloo1848 says... #9
mephisto_pheles, my meta is too diverse for me to make a good sideboard with 3s and 4s and still cover everything I need to. It also helps diversity my threats/answers and if you think about it, the sideboard is really 5 different cards since the other 3 are just additions to existing mainboard cards :)
December 12, 2013 2:06 a.m.
Stewie1897 says... #10
So far looks like a great deck that I'm planning to make however I have a few questions; how does this deck deal with RDW, how does this fare against Jund aggro and does this deck still do well against total lockdown control?
December 16, 2013 1:54 a.m.
mrbloo1848 says... #11
Stewie1897, this deck's mainboard is tuned to beat aggro and green devotion decks so as long as you aggressively mulligan into Anger of the Gods or multiple kill spells, you'll do perfectly fine in that matchup. In RDW matchup most you have to do is to survive their opening hand plus the first few draws. Once they run out of steam it's your game as long as you aren't too low. I've never had a chance to play against a Jund Aggro deck yet since it's not a popular archetype but it seems that I can use the same strategy and still do well. Warleader's Helix helps swing the game in your favor by a huge margin.
The deck has a decent game 1 against control but does much better post-board (against Azorius and UWR, it's a 15-card side-in). You usually lose game 1 more often than not if they manage to resolve a decent Sphinx's Revelation before you get any real pressure going. The deck has a really good post-board game however and wins more than it loses.
December 16, 2013 2:25 a.m.
hesuskrist says... #13
played this for a bit online, fun deck, if they got little creatures then anger of the gods really does the trick, if not sb. man there is enough removal in here to take on just about anything, and the creatures, damn they are all the good ones haha, nice
January 20, 2014 7:43 p.m.
musclebeach says... #14
There is a similar build dominating my meta. His is less aggro and more midrange though. +1 from me
January 27, 2014 8:03 p.m.
Aurelia, Boros Elite, Gleam of Battle, Rakdos Cackler, Boros Charm, Orzhov Charm, and/or Rakdos Charm?
January 27, 2014 10:20 p.m.
mrbloo1848 says... #16
You're just giving me a list of cards and no justification for them to earn a spot.
January 27, 2014 10:43 p.m.
Firstly, I want to take a second to say thank you for putting together such a sturdy B/W/R deck. This colour combination has long been a favourite of mine, and back when this deck was called Aurelia's Black Berets, I had it constructed and played it at a few local FNM's. My results were middling (I found the mana tough to handle at times), but the fun level was consistently absurd. Now that I see you've shifted it to Theros-standard (and hopefully Born of the Gods-standard soon?), it looks like it's finally time to resurrect the deck (especially easy since I have most of the pieces available from before!) and take it back to the battlefield.
My one question is this (and forgive me if it seems uninformed): Why the singleton Obzedat, Ghost Council in the main? You mention throughout your notes that your deck is weak to control in game one but gains a major boost post-board. But if Blood Baron of Vizkopa is such a good card that he's a three-of pre-board, why not run the playset instead of sticking one in the side? Looking at the deck from an outside perspective, it seems that having one Obzedat shouldn't be significant enough of a difference-maker that he should take the spot of the fourth copy of what seems to be the better card in the deck. I suppose having enough variety to be able to choose should they both be in your hand is one thing, but with the same converted mana cost, the question should be: "in game one, which of the two is more important"? And I would think your 3-1 split of them answers that clearly. It's entirely possible your main reason for inclusion in main is for the Whip of Erebos exile trigger shenanigans, but you tuned your deck to battle your LGS's meta, and that suggests that the Baron is the favoured card, so I'm just looking for clarity on your intentions for the singleton Ghost Council.
Other than that, I'm going to keep a close eye on this deck for any changes or updates, and I'll follow your suggestions thoroughly, because you haven't steered me wrong before!
February 8, 2014 3:08 a.m.
The description itself is worthy of a +1. After seeing this deck I decided to add some white to my rakdos deck for some more answers against control. Awesome deck
February 8, 2014 8:13 p.m.
Hmm... What about Archangel of Thune ? Any deck running life gain really benefits from it.
February 9, 2014 7:35 p.m.
mrbloo1848 says... #22
I don't own any copies of the card so I never really considered her. Good suggestion though!
February 9, 2014 10:05 p.m.
mrbloo1848 says... #24
I cut him for a few reasons:
The only decks he's currently good against are aggro, green devotion, and monsters decks, the last of which can easily get around him.
The meta is currently filled with black devotion and control decks, which don't much care for his abilities.
He wasn't pulling enough weight due to above reasons and was being sided out almost all the time.
His mana cost prevents me from running the rest of the creatures and spells reliably (having to pull off a combination of RW while still being able to reliably hit double black is challenging).
Since I no longer run a full set of Anger of the Gods , his synergy with the spell is reduced.
Long story short, he just isn't as great as he was before in my current meta.
March 2, 2014 11:08 p.m.
Nice deck, I like this kind of play. It's very aggressive, but not in the aggro kind of way.
Actually, I wanted to shamelessly ask for advice from someone who appears to know what he's doing. I have a similar deck, same colours, same goals, with a very distinct difference: I play Singleton. I've been trying to improve it as much as I can, but I'm running out of ideas. Would you be so kind to take a look and maybe help me out a bit? Here's the deck: THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!
Apoptosis says... #1
Great points mrbloo1848. Have you tried Boros Charm ? Even though you don't run as many creatures, it's utility is pretty high: indestructibility can save a creature from dying, most of these creatures do a fair amount of damage -which maximizes double strike, and the 4 to the dome is a great finisher or a good way to redirect to a planeswalker. I don't know. Just pondering.
What do you think about Haunted Plate Mail as a 2x (maybe in the sideboard)? I'm thinking it could be useful against wrath heavy control decks and I've always thought that Boros Reckoner would look great in a suit, allowing you to Anger of the Gods all day long and he just shrugs it off.
December 5, 2013 12:41 p.m.