Echo Circlet is cheaper than vangaurds shield.

Inquisitor's Flail could do just as much as blocking an additional or more.

Hey, thanks for the commnents! Your right, Echo Circlet is wayyy better then Vanguard's Shield. Do you think that some Thought Scours could come out for Inquisitor's Flail?

Ummm maybe Ranger's Guile to help deal with removal? Since Gloom Surgeon only prevents combat damage, so burn can still kill it, and obviously straight up removal can still kill it. Also, against green stompy this could have some difficulty as their creatures will still be untapped after you swing, allowing them to probably swing for the win. Maybe some more blockers? Or some removal since you're running black anyway? Not sure what I'd change other than that, I really like the idea though, good luck with it!

Hmmm. Ranger's Guile or Sheltering Word? Titanic Growth plus Sheltering Word could pretect from the opponanat swinging for game. Could gain 5 life. I should probably still go with Ranger's Guile.

the very idea u might win via lab maniac is a tall order, i mean gloom surgeoning your deck down with lures, titanic growths u cast on ur opponents creatures, and then at the last second drop lab maniac.. u need cards like thought scour to provide a quick way to mill yourself when u are within range of decking yourself. If u rly want to pull it off u should -misthollow griffin, +phyrexian metamorph, +phantasmal image, or even +evil twin so u can copy the gloom surgeons and when ur all out of gloom surgeons and u cant finish decking yourself you'll need an alternate win con, titans or a wurmcoil, sumthin beefy like a batterskull.

I see a big problem. You have 24 spells that target creatures and you only have 12,you need remove some of your buffs for counter spells and some self milling or add some more creatures.some cards you could add:

Forbidden Alchemy helps you dig deep into your library to retrieve your creatures.

Cancel or Mana Leak can help stall the game until you have Gloom Surgeon

One or two Diabolic Tutor can grab your Gloom Surgeon or your win con if you need to grab them.Hope that helps!I really like your idea with Gloom Surgeon and Laboratory Maniac it has great potential.

Then what would I take out? The counterspells seem like the best fit. Increasing Savagery is basically the main pump spell in the deck. Revenge of the Hunted when miracled or even when it isn't can be a board wipe and lets me mill insane amounts of cards. card:Ranger's Guile helps keep my Gloom Surgeon alive against removal. Titanic Growth is really the only thing I can see taking out. Also, what do you guys think of Mental Misstep for this deck? Could help me stall early creatures...

Keep Lure and Echo Circlet so Gloom Surgeon can block.

Maybe....

-4 Revenge of the Hunted -1 Increasing Savagery -4 Titanic Growth +4 Mana Leak or Cancel +3 Mental Misstep +2 Diabolic Tutor

Anything I would suggest has been mentioned already... But I do think Diabolic Tutor would be useful to make sure you get Gloom Surgeon and Laboratory Maniac - no idea what to take out though (I seem to have this problem a lot)

Great idea for a deck!

love the idea. I have been looking for a good way to use Gloom Surgeon ...only problem i see us that self milling is pretty much your only win condition. and if by some chance you don't get out gloom surgeon AND Laboratory Maniac then your screwed. But again it looks like a very fun deck just not a competetive deck.

Lol not really supposed to be competitive. Kitchen table mainly :). Besides, Gloom Surgeon is pretty awful xD.

I don't want to sound demanding, but if you like the deck, don't forget to +1 :).

A single Mirror-Mad Phantasm can go a long way, and a Disentomb or properly timed Noxious Revival can gain back a milled Laboratory Maniac just in time for the win. Just my two cents on milling yourself. Vile Rebirth can exile a Misthollow Griffin that died in combat, thus netting you the Misthollow Griffin and a 2/2 zombie token to boot.

Ya I was pretty sure this wasn't for competitive... one surgical extraction on a dead gloom surgeon means game over for this deck.

Yeah, no way is this competitive :D. Gloom Surgeon is a pretty crappy card.

@Ginray72. I don't like Mirror-Mad Phantasm for one reason. He is self mill. Not self exile. Trying to stick with the main strategy :). Noxious Revival could be nice. What would you take out?

Thanks for the help!

That's fair, and I don't want to change your idea/goal, I just thought that self-milling could put your Laboratory Maniac s in an accessible zone to grab when you need them, 'cause your "win condition" is really only four out of sixty cards. Just looking out for you!

As for for what I would take out for Noxious Revival ...nothing, if we're not self-milling.:P But, if I had to pick, I'd maybe drop a land and one Revenge of the Hunted for two Noxious Revival s

Yeah, I see what your saying. I guess I'm kinda screwed if I exile all my Laboratory Maniac s xD. See, I like your idea of Mirror-Mad Phantasm , I just don't want it turning into the main win con. What do you think of adding a tutor to help find my Laboratory Maniac ?

Yeah, tutoring would work. You could either straight Diabolic Tutor , or go for card:Tracker's Instincts, which isn't necessarily tutoring, but still good and cheap creature hunting. Which you might need with only 12 creatures in the deck.

Hmmm. I'll think about it :).

In the mean time, feel free to post any of the decks that you would like help with! I'm going on a 5 day vacation, so I'll get to them either today before I leave, or in 5 days :D. I would be happy to help :).

Thanks! Spitemare continues to be one of my favorite cards, and I'd love some help on my deck deck:spite-21-08-12-1.

Game 1: I win. You couldn't do much. Though you got a Misthollow Griffin Out and used it until I got to 4 life. You never recovered from this, however. All creatures you cast died. and your hand was usually full of cards that only beefed creatures that you didn't have, and would been suicide to beef my creatures since you had no blockers. On turn 12, you still had 40 cards left in your library. I was the only one who milled you, using Thought Scour . you were also 2 Laboratory Maniac s down.

Game 2: Trust me when I say you don't wanna know how this one went. xD It was worse than the previous. Let's just say this: Gloom Surgeon , you need to find more ways to prevent it from being wiped out of the field. counter spells(since you're running blue), you already have hexproof from card:Ranger's Guile, you have increasing savagery for making it permenently stronger. Add some draw power so you can find it faster, plus this'll double up on milling yourself. You'll need some spot removal for the pesky creatures that get too strong to deal with, as well as some global boardsweeps so you can deal with your opponent if they favor large numbers of creatures or bypass those pesky "protection from color" cards. flickering cards like Ghostly Flicker might help protect your Gloom Surgeon and Laboratory Maniac from annihilation. This is key. Without BOTH of these cards out, your deck is almost beat....

....Unless one of your Misthollow Griffin s kills them through the air. shrugs Even then, adding in some of these cards will benefit even the griffin.

I made this deck purely for creativity and for fun. This deck will NEVER be in a tourny.

I went -2 Increasing Savagery -4 Titanic Growth + 4 Mana Leak +2 Diabolic Tutor .

Love the idea of this deck! I was trying to look for a way to make Gloom Surgeon useful! You sir have done just that! How well does this deck play for you??

Lol thank you! Well, it plays as well as I me expected. It's not gonna be competitive or anything :P. The main problem is that Gloom Surgeon s text says he can only prevent combat damage. So they can just Gut Shot him and there goes my win condition. That isn't to say it can't win though. The land base always works, pretty much everything works as well as you can expect from a Gloom Surgeon deck xD. Do you think Asceticism would work well for this deck?

Asceticism to me works really well here... Just for the fact that now your creatures are hexproof and have regeneration! If you are looking for something else to replace it I might just suggest to you ether Ring of Xathrid for regeneration or Ring of Evos Isle for hexproof. I like the idea of running Ring of Xathrid just because when it's equipped to Gloom Surgeon he'll get the +1/+1 counter at every upkeep! :D

Yeah, I get what your saying :P. I'm gonna go with Asceticism though :D.