Man that's a great combo, thanks for laying it out Skunk_Ape I will definitely throw some of those in there

I just got my butt handed to me at FNM and looking for a change from my green/white deck when i came across your deck, i actually have all the cards for it in my box. By the looks of your deck, i will be crediting you when i accept my free packs of cards at the prize table. I have one question, how does the Hidden strings work with the elemental? when you exile the card to put the cyper on does the hidden stings still get coded and you get the 2 1/1 tokens?

I'm not certain, but I strongly suspect that Hidden Strings has to resolve in order to use the cypher ability. I can't really think of a scenario where you would want to use Nivmagus Elemental to exile Hidden Strings anyway because Hidden Strings can potentially trigger two heroic abilities each time it is cast/copied. I suppose if Nivmagus Elemental is the only creature you have in play than you may want to do that.

Just got wooped at FNM. Went 1/3. first match was against maze end turbo fog the only match of the night i came out on top. Won the first game after being fogged several rounds second game he won cause i couldnt draw into anything to prevent fog round 3 i won with a swan song countering his druids deliverance. Second match i went against a verry well constructed black/blue divotion deck with a splash of white for sphinx rev and d sphere first round he won by removing all of my creatures and finished me with desecration demon round 2 i drew into decent protection tricks for my creatures but he sphinx rev to put himself out of kill range finally d sphered my 2 best attackers at once and finished me with a flood of elemental tokens from 2 master of waves. In the third match i muliganed to 6 had a good 6 card hand but never drew another mana second round i was hitting him hard and got him down to 6 life befor he killed my creatures with double anger of the gods. Last match i could have won but once again just got unlucky draws in the first round had gods willing when i needed mizzium skin and mizzium skin when i needed gods willing. Round 2 mana skrewed kept a three land hand but never drew a second plains. Seen lots of controll decks at my meta. Several games when to draw due to time out. Better luck next week.

@mikehickey84 & Skunk_Ape You can exile the copied card that is cast from exiled cipher. It still triggers heroic and it still gives you 2 counters on Nivmagus Elemental

@Felixlives I'm still not sure what exactly you are playing for your deck, Reference to Comment #3,4,7 . Is this relevant for this version of the deck?

I think i get it, so, you cast hidden stings, copy it to nivmagus with the cipher ablity. For example, when he attacks (and does damage) it procs the ability, then you can exile to proc for the counters. however, is the ability still ciphered to him so you can do that every round or does nivmagus loose the ablity to set off the stings when he attacks?

Your only exiling the copy of the ciphered spell with Nivmagus Elemental so it is still ciphered, and the targets are still valid from the copy when its still on the stack

@I_H8_U_M8I just wasn't clear on his question. I thought he was talking about exiling Hidden Strings when you first cast it, and not after it had already been cyphered..

Great deck by the way. I play it and love it.

OK, thank you for the explanation. I can't wait to try this deck out. And thank you skunk ape i had both questions, any you both answered them. I only started playing magic 3 weeks ago after a decade long hiatus so i am trying to bone up on the new rules with all the new cards and abilities.

The best part of coming back to the world of magic 10+ years later : I have a job unlike my 14 year old self and i can buy all the cards i want now!

Can't wait until i learn the 'new' world of magic and can share my deck ideas with you guys, until then, i will be crediting you guys and your deck ideas at FNM!

Skunk_Ape its no problem, I figured he was asking for just a general explanation of Hidden Strings , I'm glad you enjoy this deck :).

@mikehickey84 Good luck on fnm, Its good that there are more people getting into magic.

I_H8_U_M8my friend plays blue/black control with removal spells and a lot of cards that have an ability to mill my cards to the graveyard or exile. He can use any creature in my graveyard without manacost, and he can do direct damage based on the power of the creature in exiled pile. A lot of other synergistic combos as well.

how do i beat this?

Kosnimjc well I don't know what hes playing or if its even standard. How can you expect someone to answer such a vague question? You basically limited his deck to everything in blue or black that has mill or exile and control which you know, is only a few cards... -_-*

I_H8_U_M8haha sorry, yes it's standard.i have a few friend that play mtg very competitively and go to fnm weeklyi dont have the time on fridays to go to fnm unfortunatelyanyways, some of the cards he uses:Hero's Downfall , Ultimate Price , Thrill-Kill Assassin , Cremate , Wight of Precinct Six , Doom Blade , Duress

If you sided Brave the Elements Dispel Swan Song Azorius Charm your control would have been fine against those 3 kill spells, even if he had 4 of each Ultimate Price Hero's Downfall and Doom Blade . Could have sided out 4x Battlewise Hoplite 2x Artisan of Forms 2x Bioshift 1x Nivmagus Elemental 1x Triton Tactics . You also would of course have to change your playing style for that match, can't just throw shit onto the board without a counter or protection.

deck-large:heroic-hoplites-control-version

Have you tried making it a more enchantment-based deck ? Such enchantments, Wow here's my take at your deck but enchantments boosted.

I_H8_U_M8How do you play Fabled Hero turn 2 with Hidden Strings ? I'm not too familiar with all the 'stack' rules... and also, regarding Hidden Strings , my friend told me that I have to follow through with tapping or untapping creatures if I choose targets. In other words, I can choose not to tap or untap. BUT if I do choose to target, I have to do whichever is applicable to my target, meaning if it's untapped I tap and vise versa.Is this correct or am I allowed to just target two different permanents and choose not to resolve (untap or tap) the targets.

PS. thanks for the control version, you are so much help man

@I_H8_U_M8

I've seen you comment on dropping Fabled Hero or another 3cmc creature on turn 2 using Hidden Strings . I'm not sure that is possible considering Rule 106.4

106.4. When an effect produces mana, that mana goes into a player's mana pool. From there, it can be used to pay costs immediately, or it can stay in the player's mana pool. Each player's mana pool empties at the end of each step and phase.

How do you play a 3cmc creature during postcombat main with Hidden Strings while emptying your mana pool after each step and phase?

@DrewKungFu &Kosnimjc Most people don't get this one right away.

So once you deal combat damage to a player, then cipher triggers and you can cast a copy of it. this happens after your combat step, else the counter you would get from targeting your creatures would do additional damage to a player.

TURN ONE

Play Favored Hoplite on turn one. using a Hallowed Fountain or Plains .

TURN TWO

Play your land per turn like Hallowed Fountain or Island . Next cast Hidden Strings and untap your Plains then whatever with the other target, likely your second land if you have Aqueous Form in your hand, or target Favored Hoplite and do nothing for the counter.

TURN TWO COMBAT

Next you swing to do combat damage. Once combat damage is done, your copy of Hidden Strings will be on the stack during your end step, targeting both your lands.

TURN TWO END STEP

float your mana from your Plains , then allow your copy of Hidden Strings to resolve and untap both of your land. float both of those mana, which is now 3 floating in total and cast Fabled Hero .

It is very simple to do, I just explained it further so I can cover everything.

if you guys aren't taking advantage of Hidden Strings then your allowing your opponent to have a better chance of winning. This deck has allot of components that interact with the stack, you will have to know it inside and out when playing. This is one reason why I think players don't succeed as often as they should in fnm. Obviously this deck can't always win, there is always luck of the draw, but I see people make bad moves with this deck occasionally that they could prevent.

So for ruling about Hidden Strings . I spent a little bit to get every last detail for it.

• 1 when Hidden Strings is ciphered to a card and that card deals combat damage to a player, The spell triggers and a copy is cast at instant speed instead of sorcery.
• 2 when a copy of Hidden Strings is cast, those targets are declaired, but the action is not until it resolves. Nivmagus Elemental can exile the copy of Hidden Strings . It's targets are still valid from triggering heroic, but any additional effects of the copied card will not occur.
• 3 when Hidden Strings is initially cast, you cannot exile it with Nivmagus Elemental if you want it to encode it onto a creature.
• 4 when a copy of Hidden Strings is cast, it can untap your land, however this is done during your combat phase so no mana can be carried over to your second main phase via floating. If you had a creature such as Hussar Patrol for example with flash, you could play it on turn 2 because you could play it during the combat damage step, via float untap float. however Fabled Hero for example is not a valid card to cast during combat step.

I have been hesitent to try out both bioshift and nivmagus elemental but together aside a couple heroic creatures mind blown. Cast bioshift target Favored Hoplite and target Phalanx Leader exile with Nivmagus Elemental BOOM phalanx leader gets a counter favored gets 2 counters and the elemental gets 3 counters all for 1 freakin mana. I wished that phalanx leader had been born a 1/2 instead of a 1/1 :(

@Felixlives what if instead of Favored Hoplite you targeted another Phalanx Leader ;) lol. (don't get your hopes up for that every game :P)

Hey guys, I have a second deck that heroic as well, but in Red White colors with some interesting things I need help for rulings on :), if your interested here it is: deck-large:heroic-rw-1

It doesn't seem like Fury will work the way you want it to:

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10687517