Sure!

In my playgroup, we allow people to rearrange their graveyards, even though it's illegal as Strangelove says, and that's because we use no cards that reference the top of the graveyard. If I start using Corpse Dance which has to do with the top card of my graveyard, then it becomes cheating if I rearrange my graveyard to put my best creature on the top so that I could target it.

And how about Soul of the Harvest and maybe even Spellbook ? and stuff that can control opponents gy? like Cremate Necrogenesis and Fade from Memory ? that way Living Death becomes a lot better

Thanks for the suggestions!

I think I'm good on the card-draw department. If I were to add in another draw effect, it would probably be Hunter's Prowess , but even then, it won't be unnecessary.

I know what you're getting at with the Spellbook , because a lot of the time I'll be drawing more cards than can fit in my hand, but most of the time, I don't find myself needing more than seven cards. Also it's a bit risky, because if someone kills your discard outlet, then suddenly you don't have any more ways to discard anything to fuel Hogaak.

You mention a couple cards to make Living Death better, and you do have a point that I should run at least one piece of graveyard hate, like Bojuka Bog , or maybe Faerie Macabre , but I don't think I should necessarily spend a lot of time building around one card in my deck. If playing Living Death in a certain scenario will be bad, then I'm just not going to play it.

Birthing Pod turns Hogaak into a Razaketh which is frequently a win that turn for me, something to think about anyways.

Also sorry to double post, but desecrated tomb works better than it seems cause casting hogaak from yard will always make one bat and provided you can exile one creature you get a second one as well. It's an alternate infinite line to zombie infestation at least.

Thank you so much!

Yes. You're right about the Birthing Pod into Razaketh, the Foulblooded combo. I actually had it in the deck for some time, but, as weird as it sounds, I think I took it out because it was too easy to win with. But I should at least add it to the Maybeboard, just so that people know about it. Maybe I'll put it back into the main list sometime.

Now the Desecrated Tomb idea. It's brilliant! Absolutely brilliant. I never realized that it could replace the Zombie Infestation in the Greater Good combo. I just need an extra discard outlet on the field, and a creature to exile every time, but that shouldn't be hard. I don't mind you double posting, especially if it's for something as good as this!

I'm glad you like the Desecrated Tomb line. Instead of a third-party discard outlet, if you have tapped creatures that already cast Hogaak, Arisen Necropolis you can sacrifice them to draw whatever quantity of card and discard 3, then once you have successfully cast him via tapping bats once you can just sacrifice a tapped bat to Greater Good , still netting one tapped bat each loop.

I have been playing a sort of budget version of this deck and it has been awesome every time. One card I think you are missing out on in this list is Hermit Druid. Maybe it is over performing for me, but I run 18 basics and still mill around 10 cards each activation and if it’s in my starting hand I usually am able to get incredibly far ahead early on. The discard theme in this list is ingenious. Archfiend can easily wipe the board and Bone miser can easily win the game.

Here is a link to my budget version: Budget Discard Gak

It subs out all the fetches for regular tap lands and cuts more expensive cards. The main combo is now powered by Pitless Plunderer instead of Phyrexian Altar (you need to have the free sac outlet on altar of dementia to win anyway). The deck also runs several “go tall” options like Lord of Extinction/Sewer nemesis for different ways to win. I’m still making small tweaks to the deck but overall I think this deck is super fun and unique to play.

Wow! Well done!

Yeah, you're right. I never realized that you can replace Phyrexian Altar with a different card. It was always just "the card that does the infinite combo," for me. I'll definitely mention the Pitiless Plunderer in the Description and give you props for that.

I know right? Most people don't realize what Bone Miser can do, but really, it's probably this deck's MVP along with Greater Good .

Heck, I might just put Hermit Druid in. I know what I said about Traverse the Outlands , but hey, getting five lands off it is probably good enough. I can take out a couple of basics here and there.

In terms of budget, I must confess that the only fetch I own is the selesnya one. I proxy the rest.... Yeah. Shameful, I know. I'll get the rest eventually.

I hope you continue having fun playing Hogaak. I know I will.

Hi SueMe,

I like this deck and building a version myself.

A couple of suggestions:

• Mesmeric Orb Fills up your graveyards pretty fast; It has some more risk to it. For self milling. But it also combos very good with Syr Konrad, the Grim. To be evil, you could combine it Mana Web; the latter also has an impact on the tempo of others.

• Necrotic Ooze Might help you out with some of the activated abilities you want to have on the table, but have been milled to the graveyard. Like the discard outlets or ability of Korozda Guildmage. You could be disgusting by including a combo like Triskelion and Phyrexian Devourer; In my opinion, this might be boring.

Did you think of including Genesis to return valuable creatures? Like the Eternal Witness or Riftsweeper. If so, why not?

And is the The Gitrog Monster worth it to include?

I love the deck and your thought process. Thank you for sharing! It helps me build my Hogaak deck.

Hello korlicday!

I think your Mesmeric Orb idea is interesting. I've recently put in Hermit Druid after much deliberation, and now I know why it has been recommended so much. Sometimes, it just helps to have twenty cards in the graveyard. I should have an open slot in the deck available for some more of that.

I actually had Necrotic Ooze in the list for some time, and this was when I also had Razaketh, the Foulblooded. I think I ended up taking them both out of my list because I never actually got them in paper, but it's definitely solid. I agree on your sentiment with Triskelion and Phyrexian Devourer. Any deck could use those cards. Also, I'm not sure I want to dedicate another two slots to cards that are only useful 5-percent of the time. In fact, because of that exact reason, I think I'll move Desecrated Tomb to my Maybeboard. It can have its uses, but 90-percent of time, it's a dead card.

Genesis doesn't seem like a bad card. I think I had it in my first iteration of this deck. It's just since then, Hogaak has slowly become reserved as my combo deck for my collection. I've ended up taking out cards that were a bit slower than others, and those included Genesis. But if you want to put it in to your list, please be my guest. Again, it's a good card, just a little slow.

Oh yeah. The Gitrog Monster is a must-include for my discard subtheme shenanigans. Also combos off with Dakmor Salvage and a discard outlet.

Thank you for taking the time to comment and share your ideas! Believe it or not, it helps me build my Hogaak deck. As for me, it's always been my pleasure to share my ideas, and to spread the Hogaak energy.

Dude check out Whisper, Blood Liturgist. I have a green black combo deck and there are some awesome combos with him.

Hmm. Whisper, Blood Liturgist isn't that bad of a card in and of itself. Are you talking about combos with cards like Thornbite Staff?

The thing is, every creature in this deck is basically a Whisper for Hogaak, and most of the time, I don't need to reanimate anything else, so Whisper is kind of redundant.

Whisper, Golgari Germination, and anything that does damage when a creature dies or enters.

Hi, I just came your across your list and love it! I have a hogaak deck and I love it to death but I'm hoping to give it a bit more of a punch and this list helps a lot! I also love the discard subtheme to it and is something I will implement in my deck.

Regarding the discard subtheme, have you actually though about using Thought Gorger? I think this card has a lot of potential with Bone Miser and after that with a sac outlet that lets you draw. You draw double the cards if you sac him to Greater Good, so he acts like a mini Hogaak. He net you even more cards than hogaak in certain circumstances.

Yo v1ns4n1ty!

Yeah this deck definitely has got some punch. I considered taking the Phyrexian Altar out for a couple of games, because things were getting a little out of hand with my playgroup. I figured I'd try just going for the Pitiless Plunderer and the Ashnod's Altar instead, but then the whole pandemic thing started, so....

The discard outlets are definitely underrated for Hogaak, so I'm glad you found that part useful!

Interesting. Thought Gorger is another one of those cards I've never seen before. It can be risky if you often find yourself having something you really want to keep in your hand, but I suppose that there will be situations when it'll be powerful. The idea is interesting, but it really needs a sacrifice outlet to work. And if I already have the Greater Good out, then I'll be already winning by drawing a lot of cards.

It might be an interesting piece of tech in my Marchesa, the Black Rose deck, which has a lot of sac-outlets. I can imagine just cycling away a whole bunch of hands each turn cycle....

Thanks for stopping by, and giving me some ideas! I really do appreciate.

Thank you for sharing this awesome deck. I love hogaak as he is such an unusual commander as you can't cast him with mana.

Another card I have been considering and testing a bit is Pain Seer. I'm getting quite some value from this card with tapping it for hogaak. Don't know if you considered this card yet but might be worth taking a look as it is a cheaper Dark Confidant.

Did I say Ashnod's Altar? I meant Altar of Dementia. Anyways...

That's cool! I've dipped my toes in the Inspired mechanic a little bit with King Macar, the Gold-Cursed, but I never checked Scryfall for all the potential Inspiring creatures. I think Pain Seer is definitely worth a try. Budget Bob is nothing to scoff at. It's cheap, it's a creature and it draws. That's what this deck needs.

Thanks man! Now, that you mention it, I'll put Dark Confidant in the Maybeboard for anyone who has the cash. Awesome stuff!

Great deck. I,ve been brewing with Hogaak with little success, but I think I will use some of your ideas to approach this guys again.

I have some questions I would like to ask you

1 - Why Grothama, All-Devouring? I see some interactions with it, but isn't too risky?

2 - Pain Seer instead of Bob? Is this a decision based on budget, or do you want to have more control in you life loss?

Yo Esgaio!

Grothama is a pet card of mine, and even though it isn't the best piece of card-draw we have, I still consider it good enough for our purposes. The idea is, we have Hogaak out and ready to swing, but instead of swinging at one of our opponents, we fight Grothama, All-Devouring right after we play it. This will draw us eight, just like our other card draw spells. Unfortunately, it takes Hogaak out in the process, but drawing eight hopefully gives us the means of getting him back before our turn is done.

Yeah, the Pain Seer thing is because of budget, but in this case, it isn't that far off from the real thing; Our commander gives us the means of tapping him down at will (kind of. Almost). If you can afford Bob, definitely go for him. Because of our lower curve, we don't care too much about the lifeloss.

Good luck with that build of yours. Glad to know this list has been helpful!

Hey, nice deck! As a combo Hogaak player myself looking at your list I’m wondering if I am missing something, which is how do you win the game? I looked at win condition section but to be sure after drawing your deck you need to play guildmage and Phyrexian Altar then use its ability to go infinite am I right? But what happens if you mill these pieces? You surely can’t always hope to get all the pieces you need in hand? Also you need kind of a lot of mana and I’ve found getting zombie infestation and greater good both on the battlefield at the same time isn’t the most realistic thing to expect to happen all the time. But let’s say you do find and play both greater good and zombie infestation. The turn you do that you basically still need an additional 3 mana to play phyrexian altar?

In my Hogaak list after I’ve drawn/milled my entire deck (by the way Greater Good and Desecrated Tomb draws/ mills the entire deck as well) I can win with no cards in hand, no mana open, just all the pieces in the graveyard and three creatures on the board with Necrotic Ooze combo. I’ve found this is an extremely efficient 0 mana way to win the game and very effective, so much that winning on turn 5/6 becomes very realistic and consistent. I just don’t like the idea that after we draw our entire deck we still require mana to win the game, it means we might have to wait to do the combo by a turn which leaves room for our opponents to interact with us.

Yo, welcome back ColFrogfoot!

You have a lot of points, so I'll address them each one by one.

• This deck mills its combo pieces all the time, and it usually isn't that big of a deal. As I mention in the description, we have ways to get our stuff back (Eternal Witness, Regrowth, Dread Return, Death + Life to name a few). Depending on your meta, you might want some more where those came from (especially stuff that can return noncreature cards like Golgari Findbroker). The only time when you're pretty much screwed is if your yard gets exiled along with the Riftsweeper. I've never been the best at assessing how much recursion I need, so take my amount with some grains of salt, but it seems to be working out for me. Also, since each meta is different, each person will have to do their own assessment there.

• You're right that it's pretty unrealistic to get both the Greater Good and the Zombie Infestation out every game (just in half of them XD). All jokes aside, if you aren't completely shut down in the early game, then you have good chances that you'll be drawing most of your deck that game. If there's one thing that I'm confident about, it's the reliability of our card draw suite. Now about that hypothetical where you have both Greater Good and Zombie Infestation out, all you need to draw and discard is a Dread Return and a Bone Miser. Sac three zombies to flashback the Return, getting Bone Miser out, and discard 2 more lands to have enough to play the Phyrexian Altar.

• The Necrotic Ooze approach is totally legit. I had a phase with this deck where I used it with Razaketh, the Foulblooded to fetch everything I needed. What I dislike about the ooze though, is that it forces you to use up multiple card slots for stuff that is only useful in that combo. You're eventually going to run into the scenario where you have a couple of dead cards in your hand because you don't have the ooze out.

• Most of the time you don't need mana after you assemble the combo. As I explained previously, a Dread Return and Bone Miser will get the job done, as will a Lotus Petal into Sacrifice.

I am curious about your Necrotic Ooze build though. I will admit that my particular build is not infallible, but it's also pretty consistent.

I understand more now. Enough recursion can definitely help. I just really wanted a way to win after milling my entire deck because there were many times I milled all the pieces and didn’t want to spend too much time retrieving them from my yard, but my list has always been a bit different than yours and now I can see how your list can retrieve them more efficiently.

My list is http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/combo-gak/?cb=1593902372 . It’s definitely fun like you say. It feels good to be a different combo deck than just another thassa’s oracle deck lol.

Oppression man. It helps you and hurts everyone else-I use it in my Meren deck.

Interesting suggestion MrDimir!

I haven't really put much thought into a group-slug discard strat. I think Oppression would be playable if it was a creature. Otherwise, playing it would be taking up a turn where I'm could be playing a creature or a card-draw spell. The closest thing to this effect on a stick is Cunning Lethemancer I believe (my research wasn't too thorough though).

Interesting stuff. I'll make sure to look out for more effects like this.