had a quick question - what exactly does adding golgari thug do here? i'm confused.

if mikaeus is stuck in your hand when hulk dies you get body snatcher and thug, discard mikaeus to snatcher, recur hulk by saccing snatcher, sac thug to put mike on top of library, sac hulk and pull him back out. he's not necessary if you run phyrexian delver.

oh okay. thanks for answering. another question - how does phyrexian delver make it so you don't need thug?

if mike's in hand you follow the line as above, but instead of using thug to put him back into the library you just reanimate him with delver.

i'll put those in the primer right quick.

sorry for all the questions. can you explain in a little more detail the razaketh/LED line?

nvm i got it lol

2 questions:1. how has apprentice necromancer been for you?2. in a more budget-y list with more basics, how do you feel about sakura-tribe elder?

apprentice necro is an absolute all-star, he enables a lot of early wins and simply activating him for value is very decent. steve (sakura-tribe elder) is extremely synergistic with meren and i recommend him wholeheartedly. the only reason i don't use him is that i'm trying to go too fast for value engines like steve to add up. most of the time he's just a rampant growth for me.

Is it possible to make a decent budget version of this list that would still perform? What cuts would you recommend?

Love the list btw. Thank you for posting

Slade, the easiest cut is the Razaketh package. LED is $$$ and that wincon isn't necessary. Fill the slots with more stax, I recommend tanglewire and damping sphere. The mana base will have to take a big hit. The lands can be replaced by basics and a strip mine if you go up to maybe 34 total. The moxes can be replaced by ramp creatures such as sakura-tribe elder and wood elves. The budget version will function better in a long, grindy game or if your playgroup focuses you.

Thanks! Time to get brewing :)

Really appreciate you taking the time sharing your knowledge!

I do need some advice, as someone who has yet to get any stax pieces and the more expensive tutors or expensive ramp cards.

What should i work towards first? How should i play this deck or make replacements until i complete the deck?

Mindslicer is the best stax card in the deck and dirt cheap because literally no other deck regardless of format can use it. I consider oppression incredibly strong but the meren discord isn't unanimous on it. Either way it's dirt cheap so try it out. Work your way up on the tutors, start with eldritch evolution and birthing pod. Sylvan library, null rod and root maze go in every green stax deck so pick them up (in that order) as you run out of cheaper important cards.

i added a budget section to the top of the primer and will be copy/pasting excerpts from the comments. please feel free to ask anything and help me expand that section!

Infinite combo without ballista:

1. Have Mike out.
2. Have Eternal Witness, Phyrexian Delver, LED, Gary in hand/graveyard and Reanimate in hand.
3. The loop, assuming EWitness in gy, Delver, sac outlet on battlefield, LED in hand, Reanimate in hand:
4. the actual loop is a bit complicated to write down, but basically:
5. Cast Reanimate on Delver, Delver returns EWitness, EWitness returns LED, cast LED, crack LED, sac EWitness, sac Delver (returns) EWitness returns Reanimate -> this gains you BB at the cost of 5+3+3 = 11 life

6. Cast Reanimate on Delver, Delver returns Gary, sac Gary, sac Gary, sac Delver returning EWitness returning Reanimate -> this gains you 10 + 10 = 20 life at the cost of 5 + 5 + 3 = 13 life and B while draining opponents for 20. (note that this requires BB additional devotion apart from Delver, Mike, Sac outlet and Gary if we only have 1 opponent, with more than 1 there is no additional devotion needed, but we can't really call it infinite as if the last opponent is at an arbitrarily high life we won't be able to kill him anyway) Repeat 1 and 2 times 2 interchangeably until opponents are drained for infinite.

7. If we use Victimize instead of Reanimate, this becomes easier:

8. Cast Victimize targetting Delver + Gary, saccing EWitness -> Delver returns EWitness returns LED, cast LED, crack LED sac EWitness, sac Delver returning EWitness returning Victimize, sac Gary, sac Gary, sac Delver, rinse repeat (this only requires 3+3=6 life for Delver triggers, way less than what Gary drains (2 * 7=14 at least, even if our sac outlet is somehow not black))

malens, I hereby award you 1,100 Where's Waldo points and a spot in the primer after beauofnylea. Your line is original! Beau's doesn't involve LED, he discovered it before I added Razaketh, LED, L//D.

I think I found that one too, it involves snatcher, Mike, riftsweeper, delver, hulk, Gary, EWitness and Noxious revival and is waaaay too complicated for me to write it down, I'm pretty sure it works tho. Probably the craziest loop I've ever seen.

Hi roguelikedev, thanks for putting together this great resource. Just out of curiosity, I noticed that you added Assassin's Trophy to the list. Do you mind sharing what card you cut for it?

Also, what are your thoughts on Plaguecrafter either in in lieu of or in addition to Fleshbang/Merciless Exeuctioner?

A few questions - in the Hulk combo line, you mention getting 2 devotion along with Body Snatcher, but since you've already searched out a sac engine that costs 1 mana and another 1 devotion black card with 1 cmc (either deathrite or the other sac engine), when the time comes to search for Body Snatcher the only 1 CMC black card you've got left in the deck is either Deathrite or the other sac engine, whichever you didn't tutor for last time. So unless you've got a card costing BB it isn't possible to get 2 devotion when you go to search the body snatcher the first time, so you're short a few damage. Am I correct?

Also am I correct in assuming this is the infinite:

1. Hulk dies, find Phyrexian Delver and Viscera Seer. (3 devotion)
2. PD reanimates hulk (7 life paid)
3. Sac Hulk, fetch Mike (6 devotion)
4. Sac PD (undying), reanimate Hulk (14 life paid)
5. Sac Hulk (undying), fetch Gary and Carrion Feeder (9 devotion, 9x3 life drained)
6. Sac Gary (undying), drain another 18x3 life drained, net +42 life
7. Sac Gary, sac PD (5 devotion)
8. Sac Hulk, fetch Body Snatcher + black 2 drop (can't get 2 devotion here, we're out of black 1 drops, devotion 8)
9. Snatcher ETB on stack, sac BS, BS LTB on stack, BS reanimates PD and undies instead of getting exiled (devotion 10)
10. PD reanimates gary (21 life paid, 28x3 life drained)
11. Sac Gary, undying, 38x3 life drained (short 2 damage as i mentioned but it won't matter from hereon out)
12. Sac Gary again.
13. Sac Body Snatcher, LTB exiles it and returns Hulk.
14. Sac Hulk, undying, find Riftsweeper + anything.
15. Riftsweeper shuffles BS back into deck.
16. Sac Hulk, find BS.
17. BS ability on stack, sac, undying and bring back hulk.
18. Sac BS, LTB triggers exiling it and bring back Gary.
19. Sac Gary twice to get him in the yard.
20. Sac Riftsweeper (undying), shuffle BS into deck.
21. sac hulk (undying), find BS.
22. Resp to BS ETB, sac and undying to reanimate Gary.
23. sac gary twice to get him in the yard.
24. sac riftsweeper.
25. sac BS, exiling it to reanimate Riftsweeper.
26. repeat steps 15-25 infinitely

Any replacement card for chains of mephistopeles?

Deepinlove17 unfortunately, no. It's a card that can't possibly be replaced, the closest is Notion Thief but it's in the wrong colors. The second closest would imo be Oppression which we already run. Then there is also Possessed Portal which is the closest when it comes to the effect it has on the game, but it's extremely expensive in mana.

Panda17Dollars i cut yahenni's expertise for trophy. i'm on plaguecrafter and fleshbag but not merciless (thanks for pointing out i hadn't updated!) i'd like to fit all three as i value the effect highly regardless of meta, but i haven't played enough lately to find something to cut. when i do find that cut i might put yahenni's back instead due to meta considerations.

Deepinlove17 you could run eldritch evolution in the chains slot, sac 2 drop get mindslicer. doing that is obviously much more powerful than the chains effect, chains really only hits blue and tymna. chains also backfires horribly against gitrog monster and reanimator. it's my opinion that chains is unplayable outside of competitive and if i had better card draw i'd cut it.

pao2 i tried reading that section and couldn't tell, i should write the amount of devotion at each step. i'm going to be disappointed if it doesn't add up to exactly 40, if it's less you can put an undying counter on PD.

that definitely counts. i award you 100 where's waldo points and an additional 0xFF nerd points for finding the first honorbru infinite that doesn't rely on gaining life!

Hey, sorry for the dumb question, but I'm a beginner what do you do when you have ball stuck in hand?

Hi! I'm building this deck. I have a question for you roguelikedev Why not including Phyrexian Devourer + Necrotic Ooze + Walking Ballista?