The feature moved into a drop down box when editing the deck. just select the most recent date for comments. If you can't find it ill lob tomorrow at exactly what is labeled and leave some more info.

Squirrel_of_War: I found it - it wasn't working before, but now it did, so ehhh close enough. I did prefer the old method of archiving comments, though, because then they were still accessable with a spoiler-style menu.

Good to know of, Raging_Squiggle. I'm not having much luck finding it at the moment, but I probably should take it just to know. ;)

To Daedalus19876, I've found that Foul Emissary is an extraordinary engine with any kind of reanimation or way to reuse it. Emrakul's Evangel might be a welcome mass-upgrade to your boardstate if not too much is relying on the zombie subtype. Thoughts?

NotSquishedYet: I feel like Foul Emissary is a little underwhelming given that I don't have many repeatable methods of reanimation. With regards to Emrakul's Evangel, the fact that they aren't zombies isn't overly relevant (the "tap 5 zombies to reanimate" lord is the only tribal card I can think of) but I feel like the +1 power boost is somewhat negligible. He's finding a place in my Meren deck, though! They both might, actually. That deck's been recently rebuilt into a very different form, if you want to take a look and give suggestions :)

Beggars and Kings: Meren EDH

Commander / EDH Daedalus19876

SCORE: 10 | 28 COMMENTS | 1204 VIEWS | IN 2 FOLDERS

Thank you so much for sharing your deck and knowledge! I have been looking into making my first EDH deck and love the idea of self-mill, so I am really glad I found this. I apologize for my long, and probably dumb, comment.

Would you mind explaining how Mirror-Mad Phantasm + Necrotic Ooze works and why it is effective? I would have thought that ability would fizzle once Ooze left the battlefield. Regardless, it seems to me less effective than the Basalt Monolith + Mesmeric Orb combo, due to having to cast 1U mana for the ability each time and up to luck on how much it mills/where it ends up in the deck.

How does it typically play out with building up your mana?/ Do you play more land from your graveyard or from your library? Maybe Splendid Reclamation would work well?

Do you have any problems with draw power?

Some card I've thought about:
-Conjurer's Closet + Eternal Witness Or any of the EtB effect cards
-Westvale Abbey  ^Flip
-Balustrade Spy
-Liliana, the Last Hope
-Sheoldred, Whispering One
-Haunted Dead
-Consecrated Sphinx
-Glimpse the Unthinkable
-Mnemonic Wall
-Jace, Vryn's Prodigy  ^Flip
-Dark Salvation
-Grave Titan
-Havengul Lich
-Curse of the Bloody Tome
-Dream Halls
-Mana Reflection
-Sultai Ascendancy
-Undead Alchemist
-Worry Beads
-Wharf Infiltrator
-Thought Scour
-Cyclonic Rift
-Wailing Ghoul
-Snapcaster Mage
/stuff from http://edhrec.com/commanders/sidisi-brood-tyrant

parjir7: Thank you for your long and in-depth thoughts! In the order that you brought them up...

1) If Necrotic Ooze is on the battlefield, and Mirror-Mad Phantasm is in the graveyard, Necrotic Ooze gains its ability. Because of the odd way the ability is templated, if you pay 1U, you shuffle Necrotic Ooze into your library and flip cards until you find a card named "Mirror-Mad Phantasm" (don't worry, I cleared this with a judge). Because there obviously isn't one (singleton formats are great), you mill your whole library instantly. Without Necrotic Ooze, you're correct that Mirror-Mad Phantasm can be a tiny unreliable, but on average it still Traumatizes me for 1U (sometimes more, sometimes less). If I miss, I can always use its ability again! It's definitely something I'm happy to cast at any point in the game.

2) Splendid Reclamation is perfect for this deck. I haven't updated the list online with cards from Eldritch Moon, but I added both Splendid Reclamation and Haunted Dead (over Geralf's Masterpiece and Pernicious Deed, the latter of which went into my retuned Meren deck). I'm actually considering adding Amulet of Vigor to combo with Splendid Reclamation (Yawg Will --> Amulet --> Reclamation --> everything else).

3) I have a very strange relationship with draw power in this deck: because my deck is built almost exclusively around recursion and reanimation, self-milling becomes a form of card advantage (much like Dredge in Legacy). I actually rarely draw cards in the deck anyway, because I turn a draw into dredge whenever I can. However, there are some powerful options for draw (such as a mass reanimation spell into Disciple of Bolas sacrificing Terastodon or Sewer Nemesis). Deep Analysis gives me the draw I need when I am in a tight spot, or when I want to win off of Laboratory Maniac. But as long as my graveyard is full, having an empty hand really doesn't bother me too much.

4) Conjurer's Closet: the ETB effects are important to this deck, but Conjurer's Closet is too slow and fragile, and I need to keep the creature-count as high as possible. I would consider Deadeye Navigator for this purpose, though, if I could find space (also, because it goes infinite with Peregrine Drake). Thoughts on what to cut for him?

5) Westvale Abbey  ^Flip: Too fragile - Ormendahl can be bounced or exiled, which leaves me down a land and five creatures. Also, I have some trouble getting the right colors in this deck, so I'm wary of lands that produce colorless if I don't have a good reason for their inclusion. Westvale is in my new Meren deck, though! You're welcome to check it out if you want (though the description isn't very good): Beggars and Kings: Meren EDH

6) Balustrade Spy: Ehh. The ETB isn't super good (if it said "basic land", I would be immediately sold). Undercity Informer is generally better.

7) Liliana, the Last Hope: Too expensive (in terms of money), and I find her somewhat underwhelming in EDH. I suspect I'd end up using her mostly for her -2 (or for picking off utility creatures), and there are better options for that (for example, Oversold Cemetery, which has been hiding in the maybeboard forever).

8) Sheoldred, Whispering One: Too expensive (in terms of money). I'd also probably run Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur over her.

9) Haunted Dead: Great minds think alike! As I mentioned above, he's gone in already :)

10) Consecrated Sphinx: Too expensive (in terms of money). Also, I'd again prefer Jin Git.

11) Glimpse the Unthinkable: WAY too expensive (in terms of money) AND it's bad in EDH (imo). A $40 one-time effect that takes up a non-creature spot and is basically irrelevant after T2 or T3? Count me out.

12) Mnemonic Wall: I've considered it before, and I would be amenable to re-adding it. I'd need to find space, though.

13) Jace, Vryn's Prodigy  ^Flip: Ehh. He's very powerful in EDH, but I'm not super interested here because he cost a lot of $$$, and the only super-relevant mode is his -3 (which you can usually only do once).

14) Dark Salvation: Too expensive (in terms of mana) for a marginal effect. Also, it's comparatively low in power for a non-creature spell in this deck.

15) Grave Titan: He's been in previous versions of the deck, and he's pretty good. I just...ended up taking him out because he has no evasion, and although his zombies can be resources, I'd usually prefer to draw/reanimate other things over him.

16) Havengul Lich: The only complaint here is that I have to pay the mana costs (including color), and my mana is relatively tight. I could see it, though, especially if I can steal my opponents' utility creatures. I'll consider finding a space! :)

17) Curse of the Bloody Tome: While the thought of cursing myself is entertaining, it's too slow and non-creature. I would prefer Splinterfright over this.

18) Dream Halls: Great card, but the symmetry would kill me immediately. I don't want to make every counterspell into a Force of Will, haha.

19) Mana Reflection: Expensive in mana and money, and if I have 6 mana, I usually should be winning or moving more directly towards winning. Also, I sound like a broken record, but non-creature spells are tight here.

20) Sultai Ascendancy: Too slow, and non-creature.

21) Worry Beads: Way, way, WAY too slow, and non-creature.

22) Undead Alchemist: He's an interesting case. I don't get to hit my opponents with my zombies very often, though. The one big use I could get from him would be to defuse Eldrazi titans, but currently Gravespawn Sovereign is in that spot and also useful at other points in the game.

23) Wharf Infiltrator: I haven't considered this guy before. Hmmm. I'm thinking he doesn't fit, but maybe the looting might help...

24) Thought Scour: No. See point 21.

25) Wailing Ghoul: Almost strictly worse than Balustrade Spy.

26) Cyclonic Rift: ...Yeah, this should probably be in there (it should be in ever deck that plays blue, honestly). But I haven't found a space, and it's tricky to cast it from my GY.

27) Snapcaster Mage: WAY too much $$$. If I had one, though, I'd be playing it!

Thank you for your comments, and taking the time to find so many relevant cards! I hope this wasn't too long of a response, haha. If you like the deck, you're welcome to leave a +1 :)

Daedalus19876
-Dude. Thank you so much for your thorough response! I feel bad now for listing all those cards (especially that I forgot to even look at their prices!)

-The Necrotic Ooze mill is very clever!

-Adding Amulet of Vigor sounds cool. And could also help with untapping your dual lands.

-Witchbane Orb seems good against the graveyard hate you mentioned... Wait.. if you played this would that mean you can't target yourself?

-Thanks for explaining more on your draw power.. even though I am dumb and you already explained it in your strategies. Guess it is hard for me to get my mind thinking about playing a more unconventional deck. But that's why I like it!

Aslo with your responses to the cards I listed, you helped me reinforce the ideas in my head that:
a) Having less creatures is no bueno
b) Using the commander and zombies isn't the sole focus. At the very least, you're not using them for the sake of an army to attack
c) A lot of once-a-turn-abilities can be too slow to be worth it
d) I need to remember to check the prices of cards when considering them... 60 bucks for Snapcaster Mage?! Oh my.

If you were to get your hands on a Snapcaster Mage would that change things up a little? I guess you would consider Cyclonic Rift if you did and maybe some other blue control cards (although..I guess you couldn't do Overload)

-A reason I thought of Liliana is because I was fortunate enough to draw her from a pack at the sealed event I went to. I was able to get her emblem out once and it was awesome. But I guess it would be unnecessary and over-kill for this. and the quickest you could get it out would be T6 which I assume is too late to be worth it anyways?

-Do you have an idea how many turns it typically takes you to win/lose?

-fyi, I saw you took out Reassembling Skeleton and Marang River Prowler, but in your Combos and Interaction description you still talk about them.
Would you mind explaining why you took them out?

-Thanks again for you sharing your knowledge and responding! I'll be sure to check out your other decks too.

I am sorry for the double post... I am not sure why it did that. I am not trying to post an edited version or anything. I think both posted at the same time from me clicking "post" once. Hopefully you can delete one? D: (and this comment!) Sorry!

parjir7: Dude, no need to apologize at all! :) It's worth quickly mentioning that having less creatures is something that many Sidisi decks do, and often they are very effective. I just chose to maximize my creature count to get the most value out of Living Death (and friends) and my commander :)

If I had a Snapcaster Mage, he would definitely be in here - he can recur many of my most important cards :) I just don't own one, alas :( He can't get me a Cyclonic Rift, but he CAN get a Yawgmoth's Will that lets me cast Cyclonic Rift overloaded!

If you want to include Liliana, the Last Hope, go for it! She gets a lot of value in every mode. I just wouldn't rely on getting her emblem, haha. I will say that she would fit better in a more tribal zombies build, but she's still pretty good here.

Originally, I had a Reassembling Skeleton and Marang River Prowler (and a Narcomoeba too) to let me cast Dread Return after a board wipe. That role is now taken up by Haunted Dead, who also functions as a discard outlet to get high-cost things out of my hand. In particular, I cut Marang River Prowler after I took out Nighthowler, which formed a secondary win-con with him.

Uninterrupted, I usually win between T5 and T6. Because the deck is about re-using resources once they've been expended once, even with relatively heavy disruption I frequently win on T7 or T8. But if I'm shut down completely - say, with a T0 Leyline of the Void or an early Rest in Peace - I may never win. The deck is a bit...inconsistent on its mana base, which screws me over more than anything else (even though, statistically speaking, it should be 100% fine).

Thank you for your interest in my deck! :)

Raven's Crime interacts with Life from the Loam well. Also, I can see Deadeye Navigator comboing with Peregrine Drake and the likes for infinite mana. Hope these suggestions help!

I'm net decking this with a few minor modsifications but may just revert to the original list at some point! Cheers mate +1!

First of all, love the reference.

As per your questions about improving the deck:

for the land base, the biggest thing that I see as a glaringly obvious upgrade would be to replace the ravinca bounce lands with any other lands. You could use the Khans refuges. The benefit of these is that they don't shut down your turn two. You have quite a few 2 drops and being able to play them as soon as possible is better.

For the anti-graveyard hate - you could look at using Orbs of Warding / Witchbane Orb. While these don't stop cards like Rest in Peace, they are good at shutting down cards like Bojuka Bog and other targeted graveyard hate.

Just one thing I notice though, I don't think your primary combo works. I get the interaction between Mesmeric Orb and Basalt Monolith, however this won't generate infinite zombies with Sidisi by itself. Once you've milled your deck out, you can't get anymore zombies as there are no more creatures entering your graveyard from your library. You need the Eldrazi Titan to guarantee a reshuffle and to guarantee at least one creature gets milled each loop.

As for cards I would recommend to help your combo - Nim Deathmantle has always been a favourite of mine. It works will with Peregrine Drake and Altar of Dementia.

enpc: the infinite zombies come from Dread.

kilgore: Ahhh, there's the card I was missing, cheers for that.

OMG! Haunted Dead I need that. Great deck and I like how it is set up +1 for sure

It's long overdue for me to respond to comments on this deck!

In the order that comments were posted...

Triton: You are 100% correct about Deadeye Navigator (combos with a bunch of cards), and I need to add him: he is another instant-speed win-condition with Victimize or any other mass-reanimation spell. TBH, I also need to add Buried Alive and Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir to protect this kind of combo. Raven's Crime is also an interesting idea, but unless I've managed to mill Life from the Loam, I'm usually short on lands in hand. If the intent is to protect my combos, I'd rather play Nightmare Void.

Raging_Squiggle: I'll definitely take a look :)

zoeyfleming13: Thanks for the +1! If you ever post your version on this site, please send me a link! I'm curious about what you changed and how it worked out for you :)

enpc: I love the reference too! Such a good show...though you're only like the second person to mention it, so I think it's not very popular among T/O users, alas. With regards to your suggestions, I acknowledge that the Ravnica bounce lands are somewhat weak (especially because my playgroup enjoys sniping them with Strip Mine), but they're pretty good color fixing and guarantee me a land drop the following turn. I virtually never draw a hand with more than two lands in this deck (no idea why; perhaps poor shuffling) and thus the guarantee of "three" lands is a pretty nice thing in the opening hand even if it locks up my T2. kilgore already covered the interaction with Dread and my main combo, but yeah, it's also saved me from opponents' mill strategies, haha. And finally, I'll consider Nim Deathmantle and Orbs of Warding, thanks!

ZomBMO: Thanks! I was so happy when they spoiled Haunted Dead. Also, Splendid Reclamation is in my current 99 (I really need to update this list), and it's really pulled its weight so far! Now, to acquire an Amulet of Vigor to really abuse it...

Thanks to everyone - past and present - who's helped shape this deck into its current form! Your comments and interest are always appreciated :)

I think Lord of Extinction could be a pretty good creature in the deck to pair with Jarad. For beating graveyard hate, Abrupt Decay and Krosan Grip are my go-to spells, due to decay's ability to hit most hate (Cage, Relic, and RIP), and grip's ability to hit LOTV and Tormod's Crypt. One infinite combo that is albeit kind of cute is infinite squirrels with Earthcraft and Squirrel Nest. A creature that can help dump your big stuff into the grave would be Lotleth Troll.

For cuts, the only thing I can really see you cutting would be Painbringer, as it exiles stuff from the grave when you really want to be bringing stuff back from the grave.

Other than those little things to tweak, this deck looks amazing! I would not want to see this at the other side of the table.

TheGrayMerchant: Yeah, Lord of Extinction is a pretty amazing card, and I really should add it. The only issue I've had with playtesting it is that it's a pain to make everyone count their graveyard, haha. It should probably go back in, yeah.

I've never really considered Earthcraft in here before! That's...really interesting. I wonder how that would work here. Do I have enough basics to make it reliable? It would certainly give me enough mana to combo earlier if so.

I'll pass on Lotleth Troll, though. Haunted Dead can do it without having to be on the battlefield :) Painbringer has proven to be strong (lands in my GY are usually dead cards unless I have a Worm Harvest) and can pick off even large creatures pretty easily, but I'll definitely consider him for cuts :)

thats super fun. +1

So I've been having a think about cards that would fit in well here and that would interact with your existing pieces to form new combos.

• Barren Moor / Lonely Sandbar / Tranquil Thicket - These three cards form a very powerful interaction with Life from the Loam. For every three mana you can dredge three more cards into your graveyard which should statistically get you a zombie. I've been using this interaction in my Meren deck for a while now and I have always been happy to see them in my hand.

• Ghostly Flicker - This card forms an infinite mana combo with Peregrine Drake and either Archaeomancer or Eternal Witness. Once you have infinite mana you can replace Peregrine Drake with Sidisi to mill your entire deck indefinitely (for zombies of course). It also provides protection for your combo pieces, meaning that if somebody tries to remove Laboratory Maniac in response to you decking yourself then you can flicker him to keep him safe and then win. It also lets you protect Mesmeric Orb and Basalt Monolith.

• Academy Ruins - This card should be an auto-include. While your artifact count is low, most of them form win conditions. I get that this card isn't the cheapest to buy however.

• Mikokoro, Center of the Sea / Geier Reach Sanitarium - Thee cards are both deceptively strong. Not only do they provide an additional level of card advantage, Geier Reach also provides a discard outlet. On top of that, they can provide an instant spped draw source when you're using Lab Maniac or when you're milling your opponents out. This means that 1) your opponent doesn't get to untap before they draw out and 2) it provides an isntant speed response to reshuffle cards like the Eldrazi.

• Buried Alive - This card may not find its immediate home i nthe deck however if you decide to include the Jarad/Lord of Extionction comob then I would highly recommend considering it. Not only will it net you a zombie with Sidisi on the field but with Victimize in hand it's basically a 6 mana Tooth and Nail in black (ok, not as good as TaN but not bad). Corpse Connoisseur is a good alternative to this as it can do it's thing even after it gets milled.

Just a few thoughts.

I don't know if there's somewhere else I could ask this, but I'm not quite smart enough to understand some of these interactions.

How do Mirror-Mad and Necrotic Ooze instantly mill you to 0? Don't you still have to shuffle mirror mad from your graveyard into your library?

How does Altar of Dementia + Extractor Demon + Sidisi make infinite zombies and mill all opponents? Can't you only get 1 zombie max per milling, meaning you have to sac it to target yourself if you want to continue milling? How are you milling the opponents? What happens when you don't hit a creature?

I'm sure these are all obvious I just can't put the pieces together myself.

It's not a matter of being smart or not. You're fine. ;)

Necrotic Ooze isn't named Mirror-Mad Phantasm, so the ability targets it to be shuffled into its owner's library, but no Phantasm can be found in the library because it's in your graveyard. Since the Necrotic Ooze is the one activating the ability, it is recognized as a separate entity from the Phantasm, so the Phantasm is unaffected by its ability.

Altar of Dementia + Extractor Demon means that you can sacrifice a zombie to target yourself with both. Dread will always stay in your library, so he is milled once by one trigger for a zombie, then again by the other one for a second zombie. Afterward, you can sacrifice one of them again to make two. Not hitting a creature means there is a critical mass of creatures you have to have to make it go infinite, but if you're down to Dread, you should be fine... As long as you have a way of making sure you don't die by milling out. Laboratory Maniac and Dread Return guarantee this.

With an infinite supply of zombies, you can sacrifice infinite of them to mill your opponents by increments of two, infinitely. If an opponent knows they have Eldrazi Titans in their deck or something else like Dread, you can mathematically only mill them down to the smallest multiple of two that includes them. However, you can statistically do that.

If they have those, you can repeat milling an infinite number of times until those are the only cards left in their library, because it may be a one in several hundred billion chance if they have several... but it is possible.

FretRunner: Thanks for your interest in my deck! NotSquishedYet's explanation is sound (thanks, sir!), but let me add a few small extra pieces of information.

You CAN circumvent an Eldrazi Titan by reanimating Gravespawn Sovereign. When the Eldrazi Titan gets milled, tap five zombies (you have an infinite number after all) to reanimate it in response to its ability. They still get the GY shuffle, but you now control their Titan and can mill them infinitely without worrying about their GY shuffle effect. This also circumvents the "slow play" problem that would otherwise disqualify that combo from competitive circles.

(Though it's worth noting that the deck can't circumvent Gaea's Blessing and has to rely on the aforementioned mathematical solution in that case.)

Also, the other issue is when a player controls Necropotence (or anything else that skips their draw step). In that case, you can kill them directly by flashing back Deep Analysis after milling their library.

AHAHAHAHA. Gaea's blessing all the way. XD Funny enough, I went up against a pro-tour level blue combo storm/mill deck and only lost because I was waiting for EMA to buy one with the new art. Beware; I think I remember something that says 'would be' instead of 'is put' for the graveyard thing. I might just be jumping at shadows, though. And for the explanation, you are quite welcome for it.