keatonsmask: Thanks for commenting! I agree, enchantments is the biggest thing this deck has a problem with, but that is one of mono-red's biggest weaknesses in general.

I like the Hellkite, and run it in other decks, but in this deck it just affects the table too late (or not at all if it is removed before attacking). It comes out on T6 at the latest, then you wait till T7 to attack, and then that attack has to get through without being blocked or fogged. It is probably something I would suggest running in the budget version of this deck, but once something gets above 4 CMC it becomes really hard to justify in my main one. It's the same reason I don't run Hoarding Dragon, even though there are a lot of important cards I could tutor with it.

Oblivion Stone is basically like running Nevinyrral's Disk in this deck, which is just too hard to recover from, even if it means the same for everyone else.

I used to run Scour from Existence and Spine of Ish Sah, which I think are the best removal options red has that can hit enchantments, but even the fact that I could sometimes cast Spine multiple times a game, it was still too high of a cost and ended up being a dead card.

Instead, I've chosen to go the route of Fork and Reverberate (or alternatively Pyroblast and Red Elemental Blast if your meta is heavy blue) to protect my big sorceries and key creatures from counterspells, or to just copy effects that I like. It isn't the same as being able to remove a devastating Oblivion Ring on my commander, but as a mainboard card I get to utilize them more often than I would the more fringe case of being shut down by an enchantment. There would also be rare occasions where I could copy removal that can hit enchantments and use it to remove the one bothering me too! I've worked to put as much redundancy in the deck as I can to give me the best chance of not being dead in the water after a particularly bad piece of removal or control, but sometimes it still happens.

Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle out for Darksteel Citadel. I really, really wanted Valakut to be impactful, but honestly entering the battlefield tapped hurt me more often than the damage I could do with it helped, which was just too rare to justify it.

I don't know of any land that taps for red that is a better fit, but if I can find a better colorless land I may switch the Citadel out for it. This one at least gets me sac targets for Goblin Welder and Daretti, Scrap Savant, as well as buffing my artifact count for Mox Opal, plus the bonus Indestructible.

Yeah 5 Mana is alot for possible removal really wish we had some decent options. also you might want to take a look at Karn scion of Urza for some possible card draw? He is not too costly at 4 Mana and Drawing cards for 4 colorless Mana seems good in mono red. and Karn seems hard to remove like daretti starting at that beefy 5 loyalty. Plus he synergizes with your artifacts.

keatonsmask: I really like that idea! He is such a good draw engine. Definitely going to add it to the sideboard and find a spot for it.

C18 brought us some new cards worth considering, but I think Treasure Nabber would be the best include. This card can turn into removal with Goblin Welder or Daretti, Scrap Savant, sacrificing stolen artifacts to get our own out of the GY.

Another interesting card, although I'm not sure it has enough impact. This is definitely what a red removal card is meant to look like when it sticks to the color wheel, and as far as I know is only the second mono-red removal that can hit enchantments (not counting the colorless removal at 7 cmc).

This seems like another good land we can take advantage of, especially because we can almost guarantee that we have fewer lands than our opponents. With the positive impact that Scrying Sheets has had, I think this is definitely worth a try.

After looking at it further, Isolated Watchtower will be taking the place of Scrying Sheets, as it is strictly better in this deck.

May I suggest Herald’s Horn ? In combination with Divining Top, Isolated Watchtower, Dark-Dweller Oracle, Goblin Recruiter/Ringleader, and Path of Ancestry (another recommendation) we do have quite a few scry/top of your deck effects which synergize with each other.

I am rather fond of Squee, the Immortal since he's always giving you something to do on your turn. You can chump, skullclamp him away or push your devotion in red for Purphoros/Nykthos. As a mono red deck, you mustn't waste your cards and get every tiny possible drop of value out of them. This is a rather cheap, expendable and recursive creature that protects your other cards from being wasted.

Springleaf Drum - I have seen not a single person using this artifact in a token edh deck so far - I would suggest it as a "budget-mox" at least.

Last but not least: Goblin Chainwhirler - arguably one of the best cards in standard right now is a tutorable token/manadork boardwipe, which is giving you 3 devotion for 3 mana. The more competetive your meta is, the more you'll see 1 toughness elves and birds.

crowned Thanks for the comments! I will give you my thoughts on each of them.

Herald's Horn - I like the idea of this in tribal decks, but what I noticed is that I cast on average 4 Goblins a game, including Ib. Since I try to only run the utility Goblins, it means I only have 17, so the chance of proc'ing the second ability is really low. A similar problem happened when I ran Sensation Gorger. I could use his kinship ability about every 10 times I casted it, and I had more Goblins at the time.

Path of Ancestry - This suffers from the same problem as Horn/Gorger do in this deck, but ultimately it's the ETBT that kills it. I've cut away all the ETBT lands I had because it was becoming an issue every game. I can only bear to keep the last one I have in the deck, Boseiju, Who Shelters All, because red has so few options for cast protection.

Squee, the Immortal - One of the first versions of this deck almost two years ago had 15+ ETB effects, and I ran the OG Squee and loved it. Now I am down to just Purphoros, and it feels like recasting him only really gets me the chump blocker. The devotion for Nykthos is a fair point, and ever since dropping Kiki-Jiki I notice it more than I used to. I think bringing Solemn Simulacrum would provide a lot of the same benefits as Squee, but in a way this deck can take more advantage of.

Springleaf Drum - This is a great suggestion, and I think treating it like a budget Mox is definitely fair. The main deck is in a really good place right now for ramp/mana, but I am putting the drum into the budget version right away.

Goblin Chainwhirler - I'm not sure why I never really looked into this guy, as he seems really solid. Like you said, a low to the ground wipe that hits a lot of utility creatures and pokes planeswalkers is pretty good. Going to add this to the sideboard and try to find a spot for it.

Solemn Simulacrum in for Ensnaring Bridge

Bridge has been clunkier than I expected the few times I played it, mostly because I burn through my hand so quickly, and even 1 lord was hurting my ability to attack.

Might bring Crawlspace or Meekstone back in in the future, but for now the Sad Robot returns!

You have listed above that "Rings of Brighthearth/Illusionist's Bracers: These will double up on a lot of stuff in this deck. Ib's mountain sac ability, Krenko, Mob Boss, Solemn Simulacrum, Goblin Welder, Burnished Hart, Moggcatcher, and lots of our sac outlets, just to name a few."

But isn't Solemn a triggered ability, that wouldn't be doubled by either? Anyway, thanks for the tip on using it with the Elk, never thought of attaching the Bracers to the hart...

Oak_Guy Good catch! I changed that line to something it actually works on, Dark-Dweller Oracle.

Experimenting with Stolen Strategy. Thematically it is very Ib-ish, but it also has a minor stax effect that screws with top-of-the-library tutors. The potential of card advantage is pretty good in 4+ player games, and at the very least you are exiling people's card, which is already a good effect to have stapled to Grenzo, Havoc Raiser.

Also experimenting with the Mind's Eye slot again. I've never been that happy with whatever was in that spot, but when it wasn't a draw spell it was noticeable. Going to go back and forth between this and Howling Mine. Might even bring in a The Immortal Sun just to get a more broad effect. Really not sure what the right way to go is, now that I am so happy with all the rest of the draw this spot seems to be in constant flux.

Have you thought about Gauntlet of Might?

sdidonato: I have considered it before, and at one point ran Gauntlet of Power and Caged Sun. What I found was that I really couldn't take advantage of all the extra mana, and was only getting the slight anthem effect out of it, so 4 CMC was a rough cost just for that.

Since I doubled up on the Blood Moon effect I am also a little iffy about running Might specifically and doubling the mana that the opponent's Mooned mountains make.If I ran more mana sinks (Goblin Warrens/Rolling Earthquake/Indomitable Creativity for instance) and had more mana creators (Mana Echoes), it would definitely justify running something like Might.

Who knows, I've been making regular changes to this deck recently to add some freshness to it now and then, so maybe mana doublers and mana sinks are on the horizon!

Great suggestion!

Really interesting spoiled card today...

The CMC is pretty good, turning off your hand isn't a big deal because I would already be around 2 cards when I would be able to cast this. You don't have to reveal, and it works very well with Sensei's Divining Top.

Definitely excited to test it out. If your land count in your library is low, this could easily mean chewing through 4-5 cards at a time.

Any thoughts?

I think Frenzy is great. Best case scenario, you use it to play a bunch of cards while drawing a card each turn (that you can't cast), and then eventually you destroy it so that you can cast your now full hand. Then maybe get it back with some Codex Shredder type card after you empty your hand to do it again.

Without the destroy clause it would probably be unplayable, but between low land count, ways to shuffle to reset the top, and other topdeck manipulation and the ability to play from your graveyard, I think it's honestly one of the best mono-red card advantage cards for commander.

One thing to note though if you do add it: Fetches increase its power level by A LOT. Getting to shuffle away a land on top so that you can keep casting spells is important, and fetches are 0 opportunity cost shuffle effects that are also great with Crucible of Worlds.

RazortoothMtg: Thanks for the great comment!

Ironically enough I took out all my fetches not even a month ago, as the cost of the deck was making it uncomfortable to play at FNM. Taking them out also meant that Scroll Rack became almost unplayable because if I didn't draw into something that could win me the game it meant my next few draws were going to be bad.

The potential with Top is huge, since being able to re-cast Top off the top of the library means you can sculpt, dig, crack Top, recast Top, sculpt, dig, always putting the lands either farther down, or into your hand.

Isolated Watchtower is good for working with Frenzy, but it would probably be worth it for me to put Scrying Sheets back in just for a bit more topdeck manipulation.

Dark-Dweller Oracle is awesome with this, and let's me play an exiled land from the top.

Here are some other effects that will mitigate dropping the fetches in the case of Frenzy:

Burnished Hart

Goblin Matron

Goblin Recruiter - This one is especially good to be able to chain-cast a bunch of your Goblins!

Imperial Recruiter

Moggcatcher

Surveyor's Scope

Commune with Lava

The pure draw spells are "worse" at interacting with it, but can be used in a pinch, and like you said you refill your hand with stuff you can't cast, destroy the Frenzy, and then cast them all next turn.

I agree, this might be one of the best card advantage spells Red has seen in a long time.

Playtesting a few changes:

Tormenting Voice out for Howling Mine.

Reforge the Soul out for future Experimental Frenzy.

Solemn Simulacrum out for Anvil of Bogardan - Not sure about this one but I wanted to give Anvil another chance.

Price of Glory out for Mycosynth Lattice - This is an odd switch, but I haven't really been feeling the impact of PoG for a long time. Putting in the lattice is more for trolling my playgroup than anything, but it just so happens to have some hilarious interactions. Of course it makes Vandalblast amazing (and dangerous for another person to cast, but it is very rare in my playgroup). It also makes Daretti, Scrap Savant, Goblin Welder, and //static.tappedout.net/cache/02/89/0289bd00ec63de74a0c78910e877013b.pngGoblin Thrashmaster better. Ashnod's Altar becomes much stronger ramp when I don't need to make red mana anymore.

The most fun interaction though comes in the form of Treasure Nabber. With the Lattice out, when opponents tap their lands it means I gain control of them at the end of their turn, and if I have Blood Moon or Magus of the Moon out I can sacrifice all the non-basics and the regular mountains to make Goblins!

A lot of my future changes, and a lot of my past changes for that matter, would be considered "sub-optimal", but what I've found is that playing into the politics of EDH and having rare or surprising effects has gone in my favor a lot more than brute token generating efficiency ever did. This means that my deck is constantly in flux, but it is more fresh that way, and I don't get bored with it that often.

Madblind Mountain in for extra shuffling!

Can't believe I didn't know about this card. Extra bonus that it's a mountain, so I can sac it to Ib.

So I'm thinking the best combo finisher I could add as an alternate wincon would be Godo, Bandit Warlord+Helm of the Host. Unlike all the Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker or Krenko, Mob Boss combos, Godo actually finds the other piece, and you don't have to cram in all the terrible colorless tutors.

Another benefit is that Helm isn't a dead draw without Godo, as it has a lot of other great targets like a devoted Purphoros, God of the Forge, Krenko, Soul-Scar Mage, a lord, etc...

Godo can also find our non-combo equipment like Illusionist's Bracers/Nemesis Mask/Lightning Greaves/Swiftfoot Boots/Skullclamp.

Chancellor of the Forge out for Goblin Goliath. Chancellor has higher burst potential, but only if you already have a good boardstate. The 1/1 at the beginning of the game is negligible, and you always have to hardcast it. Goliath can be freecast off of a Goblin Lackey, Warren Instigator, or Moggcatcher. It is also a huge, un-boltable body, with a nicely costed, repeatable damage doubler tied to it. Just all around a great card for EDH.

Anvil of Bogardan out for Legion Warboss. While I liked the draw of the Anvil, always pitching a card was rough without recursion, but moreso than that skipping the discard phase means everyone has no max hand size. This ended up being a huge liability. Warboss isn't great, but it's a steady token generator that is pretty cheap. The choice was pretty much between him or Goblin Assassin, and I'm not ready to put Assassin back in yet, as the coin flipping draws 10x more hate than the removal actually does.

With the upcoming release of UMA dropping the price of Ancient Tomb, Cavern of Souls, and Phyrexian Altar, I am more comfortable adding them back into the deck. These 3 cuts in particular were hard, but at the time the prices were too high, and even though people have decks that are a lot more expensive than mine, going to FNM with a $1200 deck made me uncomfortable.

Also adding back the two cheapest fetches, Bloodstained Mire and Wooded Foothills. Not sure if I will ever get an Arid Mesa or Scalding Tarn ever again. The reason I am adding these back is that Experimental Frenzy is a very strong card, and any kind of shuffling effects make it better. Madblind Mountain helped a bit, but bringing back some fetches will help even more. Plus I really missed using Crucible of Worlds on them!

Great new draw spell coming out in the next Ravnica set. Cards like this one, as well as Commune with Lava are some of my favorite draw spells for mono-red, and I will definitely be finding a space for it.

Note: It says "play" and not "cast", so exiled land cards can still be played on that turn, and your next.