Currently building a Niv deck of my own (incomplete so not here yet.) It's a slightly different direction but I've got a lot more wheel effects in there for added Niv damage, Molten Psyche and Fateful Showdown being two that deal damage on their own!

Hi Mrf1shie,

Of course Niv's theme is all about draw-damage, but there are three reasons why I chose him with this mixed theme of draw damage and stealing:

1. There are no blue-red legendary creatures that focus on stealing; if there were I would probably have chosen such a creature as my commander. It's such a shame; blue and red have such fantastic stealing cards. I'm still hoping one of these days the powers that be will create a legendary creature that fits this theme.
2. I already have a Nekusar deck that's all about dealing draw- and discard-damage (and Niv is part of that deck too); don't need another one.
3. I like mixing things up :) Sure, decks that can win through a single type of strategy are often very effective and it can be fun to play such decks, but with more options to win, the outcome of individual games are often very different from one another and I like that.

Have fun building your deck and send me a link when it's done; I'm curious whether your deck can help me improve my Nekusar deck :)

Fair enough, the two 'stealing' decks I've come up against were mizzix and a maelstrom wanderer deck which (at the time it won) had made about 3 clones of roil elemental and was stealing entire boards every time it played a land!

That sounds awfully familiair; I love the Roil Elemental + Rite of Replication combo!

As far as I remember, it was also + Dack's Duplicate + Altered Ego + All my creatures :(

Looks fun

Its not a likely scenario, but if people play commander stable Homeward Path it can be tricky for this decks main focus. It might be good to have some land destruction ready, maybe Strip Mine or Tectonic Edge since they are also good staples in commander :) Again, very unlikely.

Seems like a very good setup, differs a bit from my Chaos deck that you want to keep their stuff not trade :) But i could remember some gain control cards under here:

Aura Thief could be nice to get some enchantments :)

For fun Aladdin

Chamber of Manipulation Sadly its a until end of turn effect, but goes nicely by discarding cards since you have alot of card draw :)

Charisma Put it on a strong blocker or wall like Wall of Frost or Hover Barrier.

Commandeer

Confiscation Coup

Thanks for those great suggestions Odysseus_97, I'm really going to look into those. I'll definitely find a place for Strip Mine somewhere. Aura Thief seems terrific, not even their enchantments will be safe that way haha. Sure, Chamber of Manipulation is an end of turn thing, but if can get Dack Fayden to ult, that won't be a problem :) And depending on what I steal, which is usually something big, that might not even matter that much.

Biggest problem I'm going to have, is deciding what to cut for these wonderful things. I'll think about that for a while.

Hi! I love decks with stealing theme!

Some suggestions:

• Expropriate - it's always fun to put opponents ahead of a hard choice
• I think that Archaeomancer is an autoreplacement for Izzet Chronarch
• Gilded Drake - it's a bit costy, but still very good card

Hi Matrixxx999,

Thank you for commenting. Expropriate looks very good, but it's costly to cast. In that sense, I'm not sure whether it's better than any of the stealing stuff that's already in here. But I have the card, so I'll try it in a few games; see how it goes.

You're right about Archaeomancer; it's in, Chronarch will leave :)

As you may have read earlier, Gilded Drake is currently outside my price range. I completely concur it's good, though.

The only suggestions I can offer involve things from Hour of Devastation. First, Wildfire Eternal, to cast spells for free. Second, Bloodwater Entity, to pull spells back from the graveyard. Finally, Kefnet's Last Word, because it's basically Control Magic with extra targeting options.

Hi True_Neutral,

Wildfire Eternal seems too unpredictable to me. I often play against decks that have life-gaining as one of the central themes. These opponents will rather block Wildfire, than letting me cast spells that allow me to steal their stuff. Then there's the fact that this deck doesn't contain that many expensive spells, and of the spells that ARE expensive, some have variable mana costs (which doesn't work well at all with Wildfire's free-casting mechanic). I'd be more tempted to add him to a Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge EDH deck.

Bloodwater Entity is a slightly worse version of Archaeomancer, in the sense that the spell returns to the top of my library instead of to my hand. Sure, it also has flying and prowess, but those aren't really a selling point for me.

Kefnet's Last Word, ... no. Too unpredictable to be of true value. Sure, if I have Windfall in my hands or this were a deck containing Seedborn Muse, this would be a fine card. But under every other condition, I'd rather have Control Magic.

I'd like to hear what your win ratio with this is. It looks like really good control for as much red as it has.

Depends on whether I play against one or multiple opponents. In 1 vs 1 my winratio is about 50%. It does well against creature oriented decks; less so against decks that aren't (though artifact-oriented decks also have real trouble against this).

Against multiple opponents my winratio actually increases to about 2/3. Mostly because this deck isn't that fast so in the beginning phases of games, the deck often gets underestimated (especially by people who haven't played against it before). When people see Niv, they often think this deck's secondary strategy is actually its primary one.

As for the cards that usually cause victory, it's often a combo of many of the deck's cards but some special mention should go out to Roil Elemental as well as the Liquimetal Coating + Memnarch/Hellkite Tyrant combo.

Hope this helps.

I am a huge fan of Willbreaker for Niv-based creature theft (in fact, that is what made me decide to include theft as a subtheme in Wheelmind). With Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind + Willbreaker , you suddenly have a very threatening board; a single wheel can convert a player's entire army to your cause. Even without wheels, the ability to "ping" any (targetable) creature you want and either kill or steal it is a good feeling.

I'm not entirely sure what you would swap out for it, sadly. You just have too many good and useful cards already.

Hi DragonMaus,

I had already considered Willbreaker but by some stupid oversight, I completely missed his synergy with Niv. It's stupendous! I have to say it's been hard to decide what to cut for this card, but in the end decided Talrand, Sky Summoner would have to make room. He's a great card to be sure, and his token generation synergizes well with the amount of instants/sorceries in this deck, but he doesn't add to any specific combo and in the past I noticed I didn't really need him for survival either.

So thanks for putting Willbreaker to my attention; I've had good experiences with him in my Yasova deck (still needs to be posted), and I'm sure he'll come in handy again.

Happy gaming!

Mind Over Matter + Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre/Kozilek, Butcher of Truth + Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind = Draw, Ping, Discard, Untap, Repeat until all opponents are dead. :)

Hi Seraph_Six,

That's quite the combo. Niv and Mind by themselves are already quite powerful; the Eldrazi just makes the whole thing infinite. One problem: Mind Over Matter costs well over 10 euro's where I live AND very few vendors actually have one. Furthermore, I wouldn't have a clue on what to get rid off to make room ... Thanks for the info though. If ever I acquire this very powerful card, I'll give it some thoughts again.

Wkr,

NV_1980

Hi NV_1980,

I love this deck! I really like when people go off the beaten track and come up with something original in their decks and I also like when cards in a deck synergize well with each other instead of being powerful good-stuff cards and you certainly accomplished both of these with this deck.

It is hard for me to give advice on deck without play-testing, so I will just write down some cards that seem to fit your deck well, but you will know better if they are actually worth playing.

• Argent Mutation seems to fit your everything-needs-to-be-an-artifact sub-theme and can be cycled away if needed.

• Callous Oppressor definitely fits the theme and has fun little interaction with other players.

• Bribery doesn't have great synergy with the deck (it's more of a good-stuff card), but it is a fun card and fits the theme perfectly.

• I would swap Tormenting Voice with Faithless Looting / Ponder / Impulse / Supreme Will etc.

• I would add some sac-outlet, because you only have Goblin Bombardment and Bazaar Trader (he is not a sac-outlet but he fulfills the same role). I only found Grafted Wargear but there have to be some better ones.

• I would add a boardwipe (Crush of Tentacles, Comet Storm, Volcanic Vision). Two doesn't seem enough to me, but I can't be sure without playing the deck (it is also a bit meta-dependant).

• Drift of Phantasms can tutor for Ophidian Eye

• I will add some points here if I have any more ideas :)

Hi Sheld,

Thanks for taking a look and the tons of advice; appreciate it. On to feedback :)

Argent Mutation does fit the sub-theme nicely. It also fits the 'if-I-draw-you-get-hurt' theme. Definitely worth considering. This card may be the one to replace Tormenting Voice. Still need to get one though.

Callous Oppressor seems a bit iffy to me. First, I can only steal one creature with it, and only as long as I control Oppressor. Second, I need to put one of my opponents in control to decide what I may/may not steal. This often works counter-productive too.

Bribery is a fantastic card, but a bit pricey for me at the moment.

Considering that this deck already contains an ass-load of draw and scry cards, the cards within the list you mention (Faithless Looting, Ponder, etc.) don't seem all that necessary to me. They're great cards for sure, but not needed in this configuration.

The deck's second sac outlet (Ashnod's Altar was recently replaced with a ramp card, because if I can't keep a stolen creature, usually I manage to kill it off in some other way before anyone can get it back (rivals of the opponent I just stole something from, are often quite keen to help me out in this manner :)).

Actually, Cyclonic Rift and Mizzium Mortars are my boardwipes of choice in this deck, but I've never really needed them much to be honest. Besides, why kill/bounce everything if instead we can just steal the best bits?

Yes, Drift of Phantasms could tutor for Eye, but it's hardly necessary. I use the Niv + Eye/Curiosity combo only if I can't win in a more fun way. Adding a card only because it can specifically tutor for these ... ? Meh, I'd rather let someone else win. Good game :)

Thanks for your comments so far. I may not have used much of your advice, but you've made me think in detail about my deck!

NV_1980

Just a quick note: Ponder and the other filter cards were meant to replace Tormenting Voice if you didn't want to reduce the number of them in the deck. I don't think that your deck needs more of them. :)

NV_1980

As for the rest, I agree that Callous Oppressor is not the greatest card because it only steals one creature at a time but I don't think the fact that you can't steal one creature type makes it much worse (also you choose which opponent chooses the creature type so just don't choose tribal player and most of the time the player will just protect his commander and not much more with this) and I thought it can be a fun political card so I wanted to show it to you.

Secondly, I definitely don't think you should change any of your boardwipes, the suggestions were just what you could add if you wanted more of them.

And lastly, I have to agree that Drift of Phantasms would make the deck less fun (but more powerful). I probably wouldn't even run Curiosity and Ophidian Eye if I made this deck because from my experience infinite combos make decks a lot less diverse as you tend to win a big percentage of games with them.

Alright, here comes part 2! As I said before, it is really hard to give advice without playing the deck so these are just cards to consider not something you have to include in the deck.

• Mystic Confluence is a counterspell, removal and card draw in one - very versitale card.

• Commit / Memory is a counterspell, removal, grave-hate and wheel effect in one - again very versitale card.

• Wild Ricochet can be a lot of fun and it is a counterspell and fork in one.

• You may consider adding one or two more wheel effects (for example Fateful Showdown) to support Niv-Mizzet's and Psychosis Crawler's draw-pain theme. I know that it is not the main theme of the deck but I feel like they could get some more love and it could also make the deck more versitale.

• Ral Zarek works with quite a few cards in your deck (including Niv-Mizzet) and he is my favourite planeswalker. :)

• Jace's Sanctum - I am really not sure if it is worse or better than Goblin Electromancer but you may consider it.

• Djinn of Infinite Deceits could fulfill the role of sac-outlets in your deck because you can exchange a temporarily stolen creature for a different one and keep it permanently. (At least I think it would work that way.)

• Cultural Exchange - Again, I am really not sure about this fun but it could be a lot of fun.

As for what to take out, I really don't know. There are no bad cards in the deck, only card I question a little bit is Guttersnipe but I may be totally wrong about it. How often does it really help you to win?

Hi Sheld,

Again, thanks for the input!

Though this deck does contain counter spells, I wasn't planning on using more than 3-4. These are mostly meant to make the deck slightly more versatile, especially during the early stages of a game. That's why the counter spells in it don't have a CMC above 3. I like all the cards you mention on this front though (Mystic Confluence, Commit / Memory and Wild Ricochet). Rest assured I'm using some of them in other decks (some of which still need to be posted).

I'm using one wheel effect in this deck; Windfall. I included it because I wanted something to complement the sparse battery of counterspells this deck containts. Also, it's a nice, cheap form of disruption I can use early game. Adding more of these effects, ... I dunno. I feel that to get more out of them, I would need to add more cards that would damage players for drawing cards and preferably also for discarding cards. I have a Grixis deck with Nekusar, the Mindrazer as a commander (this deck still needs to be posted), which already does precisely that.

Though Ral Zarek is pretty darn awesome and I happen to own one, I'm not sure I should add him. His primary power does come in handy combined with the creatures that have an activated ability, but other than that he doesn't fit the theme all too well. I'll think him over some more.

When comparing Sanctum and Electromancer, I'd say Sanctum has more abilities (scrying as well) and is harder to remove, whereas Electromancer has a cheaper CMC. As the deck already has plenty of draw and scrying stuff AND it's hard to get started as a blue-red deck (without Mizzix) to begin with, I'd rather have the cheaper Mancer.

Djinn of Infinite Deceits, now there's a card I completely overlooked! I'm definitely going to add him. He'll probably be replacing Erratic Portal; I've not needed it all that often anyway, I got more use out of Cloudstone Curio.

Cultural Exchange could fulfill a similar role as the Djinn, but as a one-off effect and on a larger scale. It would be brilliant if one could cast Reins of Power or Blatant Thievery first and follow it up with this card to take control of a second opponent's creatures. You'd even get your own creatures back by the end of your turn. However, these are the only two situations I'd deem this card to be worth its CMC. If I'd be generating more tokens somehow I would add this card, but since I'm not doing that ...

Guttersnipe has been great. Usually I play three opponents. That means that whenever Snipe is on the field, each instance/sorcery I cast will cause 6 damage (2 per opponent). That doesn't seem like much but it does begin to stack up after a while. As this deck contains 26 such spells AND I can cast Snipe during the early game, I consider it to be too valuable to replace.

Hi NV_1980,

I'm glad some of my suggestions helped! :)

I've got few more;

• Act of Treason - I know it's worse than any other until end of turn steal you run but you could add it if you wanted more of them. You probably know about it aswell.

• Mystic Retrieval and Pull from the Deep are both better than Archaeomancer imo

I've considered Act of Treason but I preferred Traitorous Blood; trample, you know :)

As for Mystic Retrieval/Pull from the Deep; by themselves I agree with you, they're better than Archaeomancer. However, combine him with Cloudstone Curio (or Erratic Portal), and you can have as many recursions of spells as you want.