HairyManBack: I actually don't want to go "tradition G/W Aggro". unless CoCo can be used really well. Bounding Krasis is probably my best trick. His ability has helped me win games on turn 4 & 5; so this deck is keeping the Blue.
As for Archangel of Tithes, I have an idea for a deck with her (but I'm gonna wait until I'm able to pick up some Monastery Mentor's :P ) I don't really like her in this deck. If I'm having a hard time paying for than it'll be a while before I can pay for . I did have a 24th land (a Forest) but dropped the Land count to 23 because CoCo just hit soooo many of them.
Kytheon, Hero of Akros Flip is just plain bad imo unless you are running nothing but Weenies or Warriors
December 22, 2015 8:11 a.m.
HairyManBack says... #3
True true. Much agreed on all points. I thought about 4x Bounding Krasis as an option. I love the guy. All my Simic and Temur decks use him! I think he's underrated because he is so versatile. The only thing is I've noticed 4x copies has been a tad redundant. However, perhaps this build is exactly what the doctor ordered??
As a side note: I've found end step Krasis and next turn Surrak, the Hunt Caller is always a surprise and a significant tempo swing. From nothing on deck to 8 swinging and the ultimate threat of more haste. Not sure about here though yet.
December 22, 2015 3:52 p.m.
HairyManBack: Bounding Krasis has been great for me. Multiple isn't always redundant as he can tap down a field so that I can swing through. I may as well try Surrak, the Hunt Caller over Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit right now.
I'm also thinking of just taking out the Knight of the White Orchid and playing 4 colors (/ splash ). That might work.
December 23, 2015 8:26 a.m.
Nightdragon779 says... #5
After looking at Oath of the Gatewatch, you should splash for colorless and play Matter Reshaper.
January 10, 2016 8:01 p.m.
Nightdragon779: Thanks for the suggestion! I do really like Matter Reshaper, but I currently don't know what to do about Colorless mana. I have Yavimaya Coast, but even when I'm running Eldrazi Displacer, or Dimensional Infiltrator; I'll have them but what if I never draw Yavimaya Coast? Than I can't activate their abilities. Same goes for casting Matter Reshaper.
January 10, 2016 8:06 p.m.
HairyManBack says... #7
Oath of Gatewatch definitely gave Bant some action with CoCo. I love Simic and Bant and have been waiting for some new brews!
I like Eldrazi Displacer not only for a great (but some-what expensive) ability but his 3CC 3/3 body. That's good for a white creature. I'm thinking 4x Yavimaya Coast might be needed to help with his ability.
I think Reflector Mage is the real deal with Bant. He fills a creature gap with tactics that it's been wanting. With CoCo he looks very interesting. Really, he just looks annoying!
Dimensional Infiltrator I am not impressed with, however. Not to say he doesn't have his place, but I wouldn't run him at 4x. Nothing comes to mind as a replacement though.
I'm wondering if copies of Dromoka's Command should be in here MB. Silkwrap, too. It looks like it's instant speed could warrant a slot or two. Maybe more. Ojutai's Command looks nice SB.
Mana base looks very good. Over-all my greatest concern here is damage providers. It's a very tempo slower build that methodically plops down value. But it looks like it needs that 'umph' to seal the deal competitively. Great job! +1
January 11, 2016 1:27 a.m. Edited.
HairyManBack: I really do think the deck is missing some kind of bomb. I might try Surrak, the Hunt Caller so I can drop him turn 4 and get to swing, I just wish I can find something better you know...
I had Dromoka's Command's in the MB and took them out to test Anticipate because I want some form of dig spell like that, Treasure Cruise, Dig Through Time, etc. I already had Treasure Cruise before and it was useless.
January 11, 2016 6:53 a.m.
I guess one thing you can say is Anticipate doesn't really do anything since I really have nothing "specific" to dig for. I could try and find another CoCo but that doesn't really seem what I'm looking for.
January 11, 2016 6:54 a.m.
HairyManBack says... #10
I know exactly what you mean with Surrak, the Hunt Caller. He does seem to work well with Bounding Krasis in my Temur and Simic decks. Tap end step and then swing for 8 with Surrak. It almost always surprises opponents. Still CoCo misses it.
I was thinking Woodland Wanderer then I thought about 4color CoCo. Mantis Rider and Savage Knuckleblade will fill the damage gap. But that's moving a bit more away from the flash theme.
4color CoCo will be around again. Reflector Mage and Eldrazi Displacer gives it an extra touch
January 11, 2016 3:47 p.m.
HairyManBack, exactly! I think Surrak, the Hunt Caller does work in that spot, it just seems like an odd placement for him, like you said, it surprises opponents. Even though it misses CoCo, he's Legendary AND the opponent won't even see you miss him with it anyway...so they won't know when he'd show up.
January 11, 2016 3:55 p.m.
Just to let you kown, if you get Reflector Mage out at instant speed it is no better than a bounce spell, since they can't play the card until YOUR next turn, meaning that if you got him out on you opponent's endstep they can play it on their next turn as usual. I also think you should run less Void Grafters, I don't see them doing that much for you, but I could be wrong. It is also a tempo deck, not aggro, midrange would define it better. Otherwise I quite like the deck, I think this archetype has depth to it in this format.
January 15, 2016 12:54 p.m.
cudefogo: Yeah, I'm aware of Reflector Mage being literally just another bounce spell. But I like to think of it as another Man-o'-War that's strictly better. Even if I hit it with Collected Company on their End Step, I like that I got a dude out of it that also bounced their creature. It's to add to the tempo of the deck because the idea is to basically slow role these dudes out, mostly on the opponents turn and swing with them. The Instant speed Reflector Mage is only bouncing a dude and giving me another attacker for the following turn(s). But if they have a threat that I need to get rid of; I'll definitely Main Phase him.
Void Grafter I only run as a 4 of simply because he has Flash, he survives a Fiery Impulse with Spell Mastery, and because I'm Flashing these guys in, they come onto the battlefield pretty slowly and therefore, I'm more likely to get hurt from Murderous Cut and other Instant speed removal. Once OGW is released and I figure out how my meta will be playing; that could decide whether I need 4 of or less than that. But I like him a lot so some of them are totally worth it in the 75 somewhere.
And as for the deck being under the Aggro Hub, the previous build of this was kind of Aggro-ish. And I basically forgot to update the Hubs when I updated the deck lol
January 15, 2016 2:55 p.m.
HairyManBack says... #14
It starts to get shaky when you have less than 22 targets with CoCo, imo. It's when I have creatures on board and hand I feel like it's going to miss a creature. I can't count how many players don't play enough 3CC- targets and have dropped nothing. Every single one of those games they lost. It's almost like karma.
Not sure yet but Silumgar Sorcerer might have a place as 1-2 of. Den Protector is always welcome in CoCo (even if no flash). It's great counterspells and getting CoCo again.
Speaking of counters Warping Wail is an idea. Helps with the Eldrazi Displacer mana issue, as well. Hell, might even flick Silumgar for some non-sense.
Not to toot my own horn but the latter would be great contributions. I think Anticipate would be the first to go, imo. Clash of Wills is also another idea for 2nd turn option.
January 16, 2016 7:39 p.m.
HairyManBack: I too think Anticipate is really crappy here. I just literally couldn't think of anything else to fill in the slot. Do you think it could help if I added back in the Deathmist Raptor + Den Protector combo? I'm also not sure on how much I like Clash of Wills. I can try it, but currently it doesn't look like the answer I'm looking for.
I do really want some kind of draw effect in the deck. But there aren't really any good ones. I don't even know 100% if I need them. I would like to have them; but it doesn't seem to fit. Thoughts?
January 16, 2016 9:03 p.m.
Chestnut27 says... #16
Matter Reshaper would be insane in this list with all the 3-drops. Might be a little bit difficult to hit with the current manabase, but if you can fit it in, that card will win you games.
February 5, 2016 12:29 a.m.
Chestnut27: If I were to add Matter Reshaper, why land(s) would you recommend?
February 5, 2016 8:51 a.m.
Nightdragon779 says... #18
Ok if you add colorless, you can also use Eldrazi Displacer's ability, and play Corrupted Crossroads. Maybe even Void Grafter and Scion Summoner.
February 5, 2016 9:36 a.m.
Nightdragon779: I already (and so far only) run 4x Yavimaya Coast for Eldrazi Displacer's ability. I don't know about Corrupted Crossroads though...If that's one of my early lands, it probably won't do me that good because of the fact that you can only use the second ability to cast a spell that has Devoid. The only other Land that could possibly be good to add to the deck for colorless is Holdout Settlement? And that's not that great.
Void Grafter I don't really think does anything for me except be a good blocker. The Hexproof is just overshadowed by my actual counterspells (and since those are cheaper, late game I can cast multiple spells per turn such as Collected Company + Negate in one turn). Scion Summoner is imo just garbage unless you are playing some kind of deck that produces a lot of Scion Tokens, or a version of Aristocrats with Zulaport Cutthroat (which you're probably playing Rally the Ancestors with it).
February 5, 2016 10:29 a.m.
HairyManBack says... #20
This deck looks very well done. Great job and it looks fun. If there is any issues with Eldrazi Displacer's mana there is always other painlands. I personally wouldn't rely on 4x Yavimaya Coast to get the job done. However, I can see that his ability won't make or break the bank here. One has to ask how the playtesting has gone?
Speaking of which, I'm not sure about 3x Tides with everything else going on. 2x Tides and 3x Advocate seem to be a bit more balanced all things considered. +1!
February 5, 2016 2:52 p.m.
HairyManBack, the deck has been phenomonal! The only deck I actually lose to is Ramp (that's the main reason for the mixture of counterspells). I beat Aggro decks pretty easily and can end up being pretty aggressive myself by playing a creature turn 3 and turn 4 playing Reflector Mage and swinging. Those plays really slow your opponent down and if they use their next turn to remove your dudes, Collected Company and Den Protector help a lot with that. Matchups like Temur, Abzan and Mardu are also mostly the luck of the draw, but during the later game, they just run out of gas from the grinding that this deck can pull off.
The Eldrazi Displacer is only there because it's a really good 3/3 for 3 and the ability is added value. If I end up having it on the field but can't activate the ability; that's all good and that's why I haven't gone to much into it as I think my mana base could break a little bit/get a bit worse. I only rely on the Yavimaya Coast because the ability it no big deal. When I do have it thought, Reflector Mage just gets blinked everytime lol.
I also agree with that balance. I like having Harbinger of the Tides in the deck, but I usually side them out against most decks for the correct removal/counterspells because most don't like swinging into Deathmist Raptor. While I swing with him and open them to swinging the following turn, Harbinger of the Tides gets great value right there. I'll switch up the numbers for sure!
February 5, 2016 3:16 p.m.
HairyManBack says... #22
Very happy Bant is back in town. Always been my fav 3 color 'tribe'. I've settled for Temur months past. I definitely got something to look forward to in the new standard after seeing this and other Bant decks. Went to Pauper because all the Standard cards became this blur of Rhinos and Mantis
February 5, 2016 3:33 p.m.
HairyManBack, you seem to be completely knowledgeable about these kind of decks (sort of like I am with decks) and I would like to ask how you would play against the U/R Prowess deck. My meta has a lot of it and I seem to get pretty unlucky against them. Would you say bad luck? Or could there be an actual solution?
February 7, 2016 1:36 p.m.
Nightdragon779 says... #24
IzzetGod UR Prowess is just like any other aggro deck. They're scary in the beginning, but it's hard to come back after being shut down (boardwipe). The easiest way to do this would be a turn 3 Flaying Tendrils, because that's when its power spikes. However, you're not running black, so you have to resolve to single target removal either slowing them down (bounce/tap): Rush of Ice, Clutch of Currents, or destroying them, Immolating Glare/Searing Light.
February 7, 2016 5:54 p.m.
Nightdragon779: The sideboarding I've done against it was:
In: 2x Dispel, 2x Silkwrap, 2x Stasis Snare, 2x Immolating Glare (I was using theImmolating Glare but forgot to update the deck from Gideon's Reproach)
Out: 2x Harbinger of the Tides, 3x Eldrazi Displacer, 1x Deathmist Raptor, 2x Ojutai's Command.
I've had good results against the Jeskai Prowess (Monastery Mentor) but this deck is just a tad faster. Searing Light I wouldn't recommend in this case simply because the Prowess will just fizzle it (same with Gideon's Reproach). Because the players know my deck will cause the game to be more grindy and I'll get far ahead on board if they aren't cautious, they won't dump there hand of spells unless they know the win is secure.
HairyManBack says... #1
One more - Kytheon, Hero of Akros Flip. Might be additional value/beef
December 21, 2015 11:12 p.m.