What do you think of Sphere of Resistance? Does it just end up being a worse Thorn of Amethyst since white doesn't really have much mana acceleration?

Nasty_Gnoll,

Yes pretty much. Thorn of Amethyst makes noncreatures cost more. Approximately 1/3 of our deck consists of creatures. It gives us the most bang for our buck without hurting our own gameplan too much. That is why Sphere of Resistance doesn't make the cut. White has terrible ramp and acceleration, so Sphere of Resistance would hurt us more than it would hurt our opponents.

What a great deck! Thank you! I have always had trouble with Aether Vial. Would you please speak to strategy concerning managment of charge counters on this potentially powerful, if used correctly, artifact? Thank you!

Am I just bad, or can't this deck hang out with the big boys?

So far testing in Untap my few victories are played with rock-heavy opening hands, turboing out the combo once I reach a certain amount of mana ala Godo-Helm. But I'd rather just play Godo-Helm. If I'm not doing that, then my opponents simply weather out my stax pieces and out card-advantage me.

Plenty of individual cards in this deck simply feel like they do ... nothing. On top of my head, Suture Priest, Juntu Stakes, Smuggler's Copter, Uba Mask (without Drannith), Blind Obedience; and worst of all, Luminarch Ascension? Really?

Again, I'm pretty sure I'm missing some hidden synergy here. But the deck just feels like a slow combo deck with hate bears. And life gain. And casual-level +1/+1 counter collecting. "The deck is very resilient to creature removal and packs a punch as you constantly threaten life totals with your slowly growing creatures."

To add to my comment, for me personally the underlying dilemma this deck presents the pilot is in terms of how to treat its commander, Heliod.

Initially, learning that Heliod is part of our deck's namesake combo, I treated him like Godo. Fearing interaction, I'd refrain from casting Heliod anytime before the combo turn, where I'd attempt to win with 9 mana and Ballista in hand. Unlike Godo, however, the need for another card (Ballista or Triskelion) really makes Heliod much less an inevitable time bomb. This deck also runs a lot less ramp and ways to cheat out the combo.

So, after rereading this primer, I began casting Heliod early in attempts to gain value from him in the form of life gain, +1/+1 counters, and possibly a 5/5 indestructible beatstick. Like I said, however, this method pretty much never amounts to much.

Commanders like Thrasios and Tymna want you to get them out early, and accrue advantage in terms of card draw (which is infinitely better than life gain and +1/+1 counters). Once they're inevitably sacked and returned to the command zone, the main deck is capable of functioning on a high level and combo off with infinite mana - returning those commanders back into play, and winning the game with the commander as a combo piece.

If Heliod is sacked, on the other hand, he just becomes more and more out of reach. And without our winning combo, this deck feels like it's doing nothing. Only 3 cards realistically keep us up in card advantage - Mask of Memory, Mentor of the Meek, and Smothering Tithe. Sure our stax pieces slows our opponents down, but the deck feels like it's unable to capitalise on it and crawls in tandem with everyone else.

Please destroy and lecture me I really want this deck to be good lol.

What are your thoughts on Thalia, Heretic Cathar ?

Why don’t you run Endless horizons? I use it in me Heliod Sun Crown cEDH deck in order to thin my deck and thus increase my chances of drawing ether my combo pieces or tutor cards. Also it has the added bonus of allowing you to draw a land from the pile it created in addition to drawing from your deck. This drawing 2 cards.

Noob question here the but what creature type do you name with cavern of souls? Is it for heliod or ballista?

Great list! Wanted to check in to see if there are any plans on updating the "Why play Heliod?" and the "Game Plan" section. Would love to read your thoughts on the plan. I see there is a Discord so I will head over there to join the discussion.

JankimusPrime,

You tested this deck in tappedout correct?

You should almost never be trying to turbo out the combo, that is not how this deck is played. The deck operates very much like a death and taxes stax deck. The point is to slow the game down to your level, effectively making other players decks not work. They will attempt to spend tutors and interaction on trying to remove your pieces. This slows the game down drastically allowing you to setup your win condition.

Every single card in the deck has been specifically chosen and tested to counter or do a certain thing. For example:

1. Suture Priest is a hard counter to food chain decks, kiki combos, inalla combos, dockside loops, and a ton of other cEDH combos. They have to remove this card if they want to win, otherwise, they have to shift to a different win con.
2. Juntu Stakes is fantastic into a green meta. For 1 mana it turns off the value of dorks. Making people choose when they want to be explosive because they only get to do it once unless they remove this card (the card also has synergy with cards like Blind Obedience.
3. Smuggler's Copter is one of the worst cards in the deck, but we really need the card filtering. It will be removed once another card draw/filter engine is released for white (fingers crossed).
4. Uba Mask is technically still in testing. It was a recent addition because it is a hard lock with Drannith Magistrate. This means if you can attack, you win the game. However, the card was added because it counters a lot of meta decks at the moment. For example, decks like opus thief that take advantage of wheels constantly, get hard countered by this card. The cards those decks wheel into can only be played that turn. This card is also great vs other control decks that like to draw cards. If they don’t play those cards that turn, they are then exiled.
5. Blind Obedience: Not sure what you don’t like about this card, it has been stax staple for a long time. Creatures and artifacts enter tapped. This slows down the game, which is our game plan.
6. Luminarch Ascension is a very good card in decks that try to slow the game down. It makes our late game threat inevitable. It also acts as a mana dump late and mid-game. When we have our stax cards on the field and they are slowing the game down, having the ability to make 4/4 angel beat sticks is extremely valuable. It has actually won me a few games.

The deck has a lot of synergistic effects, but that doesn’t mean the deck needs to play into those little tiny synergies. The deck is not a life gain deck, nor is the goal to layer +1/+1 counters on your creatures to make beat sticks. The goal is to slow the game down until we have the ability to win the game once we have stopped a few other players from winning the game. All the while, we are attacking and putting pressure on life totals with our creatures. This is not a “casual” mindset, rather, this is playing the deck to its strengths.

The comparison to Godo doesn’t make sense here. Godo is a fast combo glass cannon deck. This is neither. You are not trying to turbo out the combo and your deck only relies on your commander when you are trying to win the game. You can cast Heliod to accrue value and buff up your creatures so that they are harder to kill with sweepers. Since Heliod is an enchantment and indestructible, it can be really hard to remove him most of the time. However, it should be noted that this is not the “game plan” of the deck. We don’t want to be actively trying to cast Heliod as soon as possible so that we can start putting +1/+1 counters on our creatures. Instead, you should be focusing on getting the stax cards down, and if you have some downtime you cast your commander. If you have ever played in a comp setting you will know that creature beats is an actual win-con when the game gets slowed down. So swinging with a 5/5 can be extremely detrimental, especially vs AN decks.

While I think you have a misunderstanding of how T&T decks function, you are correct that card draw is better than lifegain + counters. I completely agree that thrasios and tymna provide much more value, and in most situations, decks that run these commanders don’t even use them to win (unless they are playing dramatic scepter).

I think this mindset just stems from not knowing how the deck is supposed to be piloted. Not this deck specifically, but an earlier iteration won top 4 in a major competitive tournament. Furthermore, the deck has been winning a lot in comp pods because shutting off people’s win-cons is a very powerful affect.

Czweig,

Aether Vial is primarily kept on the second and third counter. However, it is very game dependent on what you have in your hand. You want to leverage the most effective way to save yourself mana while also throwing down creatures. Since you can cast creatures at instant speed with it, you want to take note of which creatures can be useful at instant speed.

Seething_Visions,

Thalia, Heretic Cathar has been a consideration for the deck, however, I am not currently convinced that it is better than any of the card already in the deck. The main reason is that it comes down too late to stop what it is trying to stop. At 3 mana, you are mainly trying to stop lands from entering and providing mana. Most of the time, when you try to cast this, people will have already played out all their lands.

Ethan2003,

I am not convinced Endless Horizons is a good card (even for a white deck). At 4 mana the card should be very powerful. thinning down your deck is not really a good reason to include the card. Giving you land drops each turn is pretty nice, but it will feel bad most of the time drawing this instead of another stax card.

Puchuking33, You want to be naming construct most of the time, if you are playing vs a heavy control pod, you can name human or something like that to make sure your staxy creatures can’t be countered. Most people do not counter heliod, they try to counter Ballista or triskelion.

the_unseen89, Thanks! I’m hoping to make some updates soon. I have been very busy lately so sorry for the delay, but it is coming! Please Join the discord and ask questions if you have more.

Apotheosis616, I’m I playing Endless Horizons wrong? I though you had the option to draw BOTH from your library and the land exile pile. Gaining you 2 cards.

Ethan2003,

It sounds like you are playing the card correctly. However, the value of drawing a land per turn + drawing normally is not enough to warrant its inclusion in the deck. It is too slow. you are paying 4 mana to draw a land per turn. This is significantly worse than something like Phyrexian Arena, even for white.

Apotheosis616

Thanks for your insight. I will consider looking at replacement cards for my Endless Horizons card.

Apotheosis616

How do you fight against Nevermore in this deck? My playgroup uses it on ether my commander or walking ballista, shuting down my combo. Also would adding Nevermore into this deck be a good idea? It can shut down a player’s combo that is unaffected by your staxs cards

Apotheosis616

Why not use Glacial Chasm and/or Peacekeeper to prevent players from attacking? The Heliod-Bastia combo does not attack, and thus would work around this combat less shutdown

Apotheosis616

In addition to Peacekeeper and Glacial Chasm, Crawlspace and Silent Arbiter can be used to prevent or reduce combat damage

Apotheosis616, why are you running Phyrexian Revoker in place of Pithing Needle? Does paying the extra 1 mana for it to target a Activated mana source really worth it?

Ethan2003,

Join our discord server, you will get much faster responses.

Nevermore is generally not a card you want to be playing, unless it is a tech card into a meta where people are running the same wincons or something. Otherwise, you really don't want to be paying 3 mana to make someone else not be able to play a card. The best way to counter the card is to add more artifact and enchantment removal spells, then it should be totally fine.

on Peacekeeper, Glacial Chasm, Crawlspace and Silent Arbiter: You don't really need these kinds of cards in cEDH, unless you are playing specifically against decks like godo, najeela, or other combat-centric commanders. You could then add one of those cards in accordingly. I also think that Orim's Chant does the jobs just fine. Peacekeeper hurts really bad because it is constantly costing mana on top of the already high price of 3. If anything, I would maybe go with Glacial Chasm since you can tutor it up.

Phyrexian Revoker being able to hit mana abilities is everything. It can stop Food chain combos and other mana producing combos which are starting to become a lot more popular.

So, this will be my first cEDH deck, so thank you for the great Primer. One question I have is about the Plains? Is there any reason to run Plains over Snow-Covered Plains? I know the difference is very minor, just asking if there is a gameplay reason for one over the other in