In Response, Spin Top (Miracles Primer)

Legacy* Ashy

SCORE: 86 | 116 COMMENTS | 10674 VIEWS | IN 22 FOLDERS


Ashy says... #1

Shane.Allen Thank you very much! I really appreciate it!

I like it a lot. My friend also plays UR Delver, but he plays 0 Ponder main in favor of more burn and 2 Grim Lavamancer main. I think yours is better xD!

August 24, 2016 1:36 p.m.

Shane.Allen says... #2

Well, thank you very much, that is very kind of you. I love Legacy and Vintage play but never get to play my decks in this area too much. When I get some more free-time I'll look at your other decks and give my thoughts. Thank you for the kind words. :)

August 24, 2016 2:55 p.m.

Ashy says... #3

You're very welcome, Shane.Allen! I love them too, I'm sorry you don't get to play it much, that's awful. I'm very thankful that my store hosts consistent sunday legacy events. We sometimes even get up to 20 players! I actually built tins fins so that my friend could play legacy every week too. I'm in the process of finishing Dredge and Belcher so that even more friends can play if they want. And thank you, I'll do the same for yours :)

August 24, 2016 3:29 p.m.

ChiefBell says... #4

I really like this primer, its great. Good work. The level of detail is on point.

How sure are you of matchup information?

August 24, 2016 3:52 p.m.

Ashy says... #5

Thank you very much, ChiefBell! That means a lot coming from you, I actually got inspired by one of your primers.

I'm pretty confident in it. But admittedly, it is from my own esoteric experience from playing the deck actively for over 8 years. I did try looking up "miracles good matchups" but all I could find was a bunch of articles on how to beat the deck and its bad matchups, with some very loose generalizations. So I went mostly from my own personal experience. Did you see something I missed or messed up on?

August 24, 2016 4:14 p.m. Edited.

ChiefBell says... #6

honestly i dont play the deck so i wasnt sure, but from writing primers all over the site i know that its the most difficult section to get done properly.

Personal experience isn't as significant and useful as community experience but when you only have personal experience then thats fine. most of the time a good player has the right instincts as it is.

August 24, 2016 4:20 p.m. Edited.

Ashy says... #7

Interesting, I figured the sideboard would actually be the hardest part personally, since it's so adaptive and has the most customization.

Of course, that makes a lot of sense. I'll definitely keep that in mind in the future :)

August 24, 2016 4:29 p.m.

Shane.Allen says... #8

Ashy Thank you very much, I am working with my new store owner, we had a really bad store and now new store just opened. Well I'm working with him to try to get more events and more people every week, guess its one of the bad things about living in a very small town. xD

August 24, 2016 6:42 p.m.

Ashy says... #9

Shane.Allen, You're very welcome! I really hope that pans out for you! I hope you have good legacy players in your town! My store has a $10 entry for 0 proxies, and a $15 entry for up to 15 proxies, and all the store credit is payed out 100% to the top 8! It's really fun :)

August 24, 2016 7:01 p.m.

Shane.Allen says... #10

Thank you yet again Ashely, I'm thanking you a lot lately but what a great Idea I shall run that by My store owner, whom I have his ear very well and see if he'll go for it. :)

August 24, 2016 7:30 p.m.

Bob_Da_Epic says... #11

Hi Ashy. I've always wanted to pilot a miracles deck and I fell in love with the concept when I first saw the deck. I knew the basic rules but I didn't have good info on match ups. How is KnightFall, Maverick and Affinity against miracles. My meta is very very control heavy so I wouldn't have a clue. Your primer helped me out so much. Thanks!

August 25, 2016 1:54 a.m.

Bob_Da_Epic says... #12

I'm also a thirteen year old so I won't have the budget lol

August 25, 2016 1:55 a.m.

Ashy says... #13

Greetings, Mr_Sausage! I'm really glad to hear that my primer was able to help you out! If you have any other piloting questions, just let me know and I'd be more than happy to answer them if I can!

In the comments I actually go over some more budget options, but no matter what, the deck's going to be a little pricey, unfortunately.

As for those match ups, I feel like you're extremely favored vs Maverick and Affinity. My win record vs both is literally 100%. The only real big issue cards vs Maverick are Knight of the Reliquary and Gaddock Teeg. So you have to be smart on how you use your Swords to Plowshares. But Terminus is a serious beating against it.

Affinity is a breeze typically, they can't really recover from Terminus, but the major issue is Cranial Plating and Inkmoth Nexus. An Inkmoth Nexus can easily kill you in one turn with a Cranial Plating or Arcbound Ravager, so you have to try and save your Swords to Plowshares for the manlands when applicable.

I've personally never played a game vs Knight fall, but I imagine it's a lot like maverick, except that Knight of the Reliquary is even more of a must kill. I feel like you're better against them game 2 than you would be maverick, because you get extra sideboard cards. But I'm not sure. I can test vs it sometime and let you know though!

August 25, 2016 2:18 a.m.

Bob_Da_Epic says... #14

Well I'm back. I was finally able to pilot miracles on untap.in and it was spectacular! But I'm here to discuss more about match ups right now. My meta currently consists of burn, affinity, Maverick, KnightFall, UR delver and manaless dregde. With being said, I think burn, affinity and maverick are easy to deal with due to locks, Terminus and due to the fact that our maverick player has cut teeg due to the fact he thinks it's already "good" against blue. I'm unsure about KnightFall, but with my friend using a humans aggro variant(hopefully you have played KnightFall?), it's quite a bit easier since he is no expert when it comes to deck building. Our delver player seems to pull wins out of his butt, thinking very strategically and just controlling the board out of nowhere. And manaless dredge seems like a nightmare to me, it looks like there are very little responses to it. Thoughts?

October 7, 2016 11:13 p.m.

Ashy says... #15

Welcome back Mr_Sausage That's a lot to parse, lol. I'm glad you were able to pilot it and did well!

What a meta! I'm envious. They all seem so nice to play against.

KnightFall has been very VERY easy for me to beat. It's just diluted Maverick in my experience. It is weak to the same cards as maverick is. Namely Swords to Plowshares Terminus and well timed counter magic. Just navigate it the way you do Maverick.

Manaless dredge is scary. They rarely have any way to interact with hate outside of Chancellor of the Annex and the ones that sideboard into Disrupting Shoal and Force of Will. My side is pretty heavily against this deck actually. I've been testing a 2nd Surgical Extraction as well and it's been phenominal. You simply have more hate than they do ways to deal with it. They can get on board really fast. But once you stop them from continuing the engine, it just takes some Swords to Plowshares or a handy Terminus to clean the slate. Maybe an Engineered Explosives as well. If you slam a Rest in Peace they simply just cannot beat you. It's that simple. Surgical Extraction really helps slow them down. They can't mulligan, literally. So if you have a well placed surgical, you will gain a LOT of turns usually. And you always get to play first, so it lets you try and play Rest in Peace even faster.

UR delver is really scary. Delver of Secrets  Flip can get out of hand really fast. I usually find it's the easiest of the variants to beat, but also the easiest to get blindsided by. It is the most consistent delver deck I think, and if you stumble, you will fall. You have so much action for them though, and they can't beat the lock. So if you can Swords to Plowshares some early threats and establish a lock, you should win. Terminus is also king here.

October 7, 2016 11:45 p.m.

Bob_Da_Epic says... #16

Aw crap. I forgot about the most resilient combo deck in my meta: fricken elves with Progenitus on side. Now this deck is the one to beat. I know removal screws some creatures over, but holy crap, this guy bounces it back to his hand and casts it over again. I know a very well timed Terminus can solve this! but he has pulled turn 2 wins out of nowhere too! What a meanie weenie! Thoughts? Lol

October 8, 2016 12:11 a.m.

Ashy says... #17

Mr_Sausage Elves is actually an infamously "good" matchup. Without Cavern of Souls they literally can't beat the lock game 1. The hardest part of beating elves is knowing what targets to value the most. A less experienced player might try to Swords to Plowshares a Elvish Visionary while a Wirewood Symbiote is in play. Which of course is silly. Wirewood Symbiote is THE card to kill. They can definitely get out of hand with their draw engine. But you have to mulligan intelligently, use your removal sparingly, and dig hard for that Terminus. Oh, and always counter the Glimpse of Nature lol. Game two is a lot harder as they usually have some number of Abrupt Decay, and Thoughtseize / Cabal Therapy. I try to rely more on Brainstorm and Terminus here. In my primer in the tab for Sideboard Guide, and Matchups and Problematic Cards, I go over elves as well.

As for his turn two wins, sometimes you're going to lose due to just not having the right thing at the right time. Sometimes there's just nothing you can do. Gaea's Cradle and Heritage Druid are usually what pull out those wins. So try to stop them, lol.

October 8, 2016 10:35 a.m.

EpicFreddi says... #18

Did you get any experience with Nahiricles? You seem like a very knowledgeble player, given that you top 10'd a SCG event, so I'd like to hear your opinion on it.
You could also add Nahiricles in your "The Legends Build vs The Ponder/Mentor Build" spoiler, given that the version differs very much from the other builds.
Also: Thank you for your opinion on my deck. It's always awesome to get input from good players.

November 24, 2016 11:51 a.m.

Ashy says... #19

EpicFreddi Hello there, thank you! I did get some experience vs it actually :) I lost my 2nd win and in to the top 8 from a Nahiricles list in that SCG event actually. Lol. In that spoiler there is the tab for "Other Builds" and in there it discusses Nahiri.

You're very welcome! Thanks for your input on mine and the +1 <3

November 24, 2016 2:01 p.m.

EpicFreddi says... #20

... Reading was never my strength.

November 24, 2016 2:21 p.m.

Ashy says... #21

EpicFreddi It's all good :) I just added more to it anyways because I noticed I missed a few points, so thank you!

November 24, 2016 3:51 p.m.

EpicFreddi says... #22

You're welcome. Helping by not being helpful. Living the dream. :D

November 24, 2016 3:56 p.m.

carpecanum says... #23

I'm not a legacy player and haven't played anything but EDH or draw tournaments in years, but it looks like you could gain another win con by adding a Sphinx's Tutelage. Brainstorm, Jace, the Mind Sculptor (his 0 ability) and Sensei's Divining Top would all play to a fast mill. Once it's out you don't have to activate it or anything so your mana is still free.

November 25, 2016 3:26 a.m.

Ashy says... #24

Hey there, carpecanum, thanks for the +1! I appreciate the input! But Sphinx's Tutelage is definitely too slow for legacy unfortunately. But I love where your head is at!

November 25, 2016 3:37 a.m.

EpicFreddi says... #25

If Burn, Storm and Emrakul weren't a thing, the idea wouldn't be too bad.

November 25, 2016 3:46 a.m.

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