Inalla's House of Combo (EDH Infinite / Doomsday)
Commander / EDH*
SCORE: 68 | 125 COMMENTS | 16668 VIEWS | IN 45 FOLDERS
Frank_Glascock says... #2
What do you think about adding these four cards:
Mana Vault, Mox Diamond, Mystic Remora and Mana Drain
I would remove Merchant of Secrets (seems inefficient) Puppeteer Clique, Glen Elendra Archmage, and Laboratory Maniac.
Mana Drain, Force of Will, Swan Song, Counterspell and Delay would constitute my counter suite.
I played the deck today. The Dualcaster Mage+ Rite of Replication + Inalla's trigger seems slow to get to eight mana. Mana Vault and Mox Diamond speed us up and fuel Paradox Engine. Mystic Remora seems better than Merchant of Secrets. I am still at 26 wizards.
September 11, 2017 8:06 p.m.
Frank_Glascock says... #3
I am playing Blasphemous Act and Damnation. I know in your meta these board wipes are not necessary. One way the other 2017 tribal decks deal with Inalla is just to aggro it off the table.
The more competitive the environment the less this is an issue. The problem then is you are trying to outrace faster combo decks. The solution is to go the reanimation route outline in the deck tech done by The Laboratory Maniacs. Or just be happy playing a tier 2.5 deck.
Was Mistbind Clique given any consideration?
September 12, 2017 12:24 a.m.
Frank_Glascock says... #4
You added Apprentice Necromancer and have Viscera Seer. What are you trying to do?
Arcanis the Omnipotent is coming out of the deck. I may add Talisman of Dominance.
Panharmonicon will not apply to Innala's token producing trigger. What do you think about replacing it in the deck?
September 12, 2017 4:40 p.m.
Frank_Glascock says... #5
I was wrong on Apprentice Necromancer. You have had it in the deck.
I do still want to know your experiences with Arcanis and Panharmonicon.
September 12, 2017 5:01 p.m.
FrigidOfficial says... #6
Those seem like fine additions. We get ramp in colors that don't usually have it and remove many of the slower or solely value-based cards. Those counters seem fine. If you're trying to combo out faster, I would suggest Ghostly Flicker over Rite of Replication. I use Rite of Replication because, despite the combo nature of my meta, our decks are still more on the 75% side and tend to be slower.
Mistbind Clique was considered as it is a viable lock, but not added due to budget reasons.
Viscera Seer gives us another way to utilize our tokens in the form of fixing our draws. If the tokens are going to be sacrificed anyways, we might as well get something extra out of the deaths. Arcanis the Omnipotent is fine to remove. He is slow if you're trying to combo out quickly. In my case, I can safely get him out and expect to draw a turn later. The extra artifact ramp is a good idea for your brew.
I like Panharmonicon for my slower version. Trinket Mage and Trophy Mage become far better, as do many of the subpar wizards (such as Merchant of Secrets, which becomes 3U draw four cards). It is probably fine to cut if your only intent is to combo out. The version of the deck I've been playing is more of an adaptive combo deck as opposed to a true combo deck.
With regards to your comment on my profile, feel free to call me whatever you'd like. The part about getting four triggers instead of six is also valid, though in my experience four triggers is usually enough to kill an opponent who has been abusing shocks and fetches; someone who has been able to ramp to around 6-8 lands by pinging themselves should be at around 26-28 life and at that point Anathemancer is just "2BR: Kill your opponent".
September 12, 2017 7:22 p.m.
Frank_Glascock says... #7
I did some research and Mistbind Clique and a mana producing sacrifice outlet (Ashnod's Altar or Phyrexian Altar) can infinitely tap opponent's lands. Even without it, with 2 mana on the turn you cast Mistbind Clique you can keep the token until the end step off the next player. Thus, you can tap any untapped lands on the end of his turn. Do I have this right?
Do we have need for Phyrexian Altar in the deck besides this niche example?
September 12, 2017 11:59 p.m.
Frank_Glascock says... #8
Your list definitely offers a good compromise between an all out combo deck and one that has no viable win condition. I could run the budgetless Laboratory Maniacs version of the deck. It would not be as good as the the competitive deck I have and I could not play it much at the shop. Thank you for providing a good alternative.
The deck has definitely benefited from the mana artifacts. I think we needed them as it was too easy to target us and aggro Inalla out of the game in even a three person pod.
Mystic Remora was an all star tonight. I think I like it over Rhystic Study but I am playing both.
I did some research and could not find a step by step explanation of the Dualcaster Mage/Ghostly Flicker combo? Am I right that you can also exile lands and go infinite with mana? Do the first two casts of Ghostly Flicker have to target something other than Dualcaster Mage, as with the Rite of Replication and Dualcaster Mage combo?
September 13, 2017 12:43 a.m.
Frank_Glascock says... #9
Doesn't the Bloodline Necromancer/Ashnod's Altar combo also work with Phyrexian Altar? If so, is there a reason for playing Ashnod's Altar over Phyrexian Altar?
September 13, 2017 1:21 a.m.
Frank_Glascock says... #10
I think I found an explanation for the Ghostly Flicker/Dualcaster Mage combo:
"Cast Ghostly Flicker targeting any two permanents, hold priority and cast Dualcaster Mage. After it resolves target GF with the Dualcaster ETB, with the copy target a land that comes into play untapped and Dualcaster Mage. This creates a infinite mana loop. At any point that the Mage comes into play you can pay 1 colorless to create a hasty copy of it, the ETB of the copy is irrelevant.Repeat until you are satisfied with the number of wizards in play, cast Inalla and tap wizards in increments of 7 n times till everyone dies."
The only thing that was not spelled out was that you make infinite mana first then you make infinite Dualcaster Mage tokens. Cast Inalla and tap your infinite tokens. Am I correct?
September 13, 2017 3:17 a.m.
Frank_Glascock says... #11
Is there any interaction besides countering either Ghostly Flicker or Dualcaster Mage that can interrupt the combo? For example, could your opponents Path to Exile Dualcaster Mage in response to you targeting it with the copied Ghostly Flicker?
September 13, 2017 3:28 a.m.
Frank_Glascock says... #12
I think I was brainstorming late last night. I hope you would not mind if I consolidate all the questions I had here. I will use the FrigidOfficial numbering method of which I am a fan.
- Am I right in my understanding of Mistbind Clique? You may have to read my post from last night for clarification.
What wizard if any would you cut from my list for Mistbind Clique? I am playing Sower of Temptation and Master of Waves in place of Merchant of Secrets and Viscera Seer. I cut Arcanis the Omnipotent to go to 25 creatures. Has Sage of Fables consistently drawn you cards?
The next number is 2 on my screen but Tappedout changes it to 1.
Does Phyrexian Altar have a place in the deck? It is another enabler for Bloodline Necromancer and has synergy with Mistbind Clique. How often do you find yourself sacrificing wizards to Ashnod's Altar for Mana? How often does Ashnod's Altar get removed preventing you from going off with Bloodline Necromancer?
Can you detail the Ghostly Flicker/Dualcaster Mage combo? Am I right that this cuts one blue from the cost of the combo? Is this more fragile that using Rite of Replication even though it is a sorcery?
How is 35 lands doing for you? I am at 36 even with the addition of the mana artifacts.
How is Kindred Discovery performing? I ask because I am playing Mystic Remora and Rhystic Study both of which I believe will draw me more cards. I am thinking or cutting it and playing Preordain instead. Consider that Preordain has synergy with Snapcaster Mage, Archaeomancer and Kess, Dissident Mage. Am I off base?
I do not want to play another tutor in this spot as Grim Tutor speeds up our combo. I am playing three low cost black tutors, Mystical Tutor and Vedalken AEthermage.
September 13, 2017 1:18 p.m.
FrigidOfficial says... #13
Hey Frank, I'll answer the new questions as best as I can.
You explanation of Mistbind Clique is absolutely correct. In your list, I would cut Master of Waves. I didn't see the value in playing it if you're trying to go for a more combo-oriented list. Sage of Fables is decent card draw, but not a huge engine. It's mostly there for the lord effect (as we get some beefier wizards; my meta has a lot of pings, so saving the 1 health wizards is a huge boon sometimes). If you are set on Master of Waves, Sage of Fables is probably a good cut.
Phyrexian Altar was not considered for my deck because of price. It is a solid inclusion for yours, as redundancy is never a bad thing in a combo deck. I usually sacrifice wizards for mana to Ashnod's Altar if they're tokens or if I need a little bit of extra push to combo out. Ashnod's generally gets removed because it holds a lot of value, not explicitly to prevent the Bloodline Necromancer combo. If you want to slot Phyrexian Altar, it might be okay to cut one of the less efficient mana rocks.
The Ghostly Flicker and Dualcaster Mage combo that you explained is in fact the way to do it. Make infinite mana first, then infinite tokens. Either tap them all to Inalla's effect or swing wide with the large number of hasty ones.
You have more than enough artifacts to mitigate the loss of one land. 35 lands is always enough for me, especially with our rock mana and cards like Paradox Engine.
Kindred Discovery is great when I hit it; it often gets a lot of value but isn't integral enough for my opponents to use removal on. It may be different for your meta, but in mine enchantment removal is interestingly few and far between.
Preordain is a great card to play if you don't want to play Kindred Discovery. It gets a lot of value from many of the wizards we run and generally speeds up the deck.
September 13, 2017 1:35 p.m.
Frank_Glascock says... #14
Thanks for the quick response.
- Was I right that Ghostly Flicker/Dualcaster Mage cuts one blue from the combo casting cost? Is there any advantage to Ghostly Flicker over Rite of Replication besides mana cost reduction?
I may cut Sage of Fables and keep Master of Waves. It is so close that if I still had Glen Elendra Archmage I might keep Sage of Fables. I play almost half my games against the other 2017 decks which seem to lean toward heavy aggro even when optimized. A slow start and being the focal point of attacks is usually enough.
- Did Master of Waves provide a good source of blockers?
September 13, 2017 2:49 p.m.
FrigidOfficial says... #15
You are correct in saying that the cost is cut by one blue, I believe. The main advantage is that the combo can be done at instant speed with Ghostly Flicker, in my opinion.
I never used Master of Waves, but any deck that pumps out several creatures in my meta creates creatures with flying, so the elementals are unfortunately moot.
I just added an update with my thoughts on my current build a few minutes ago - if you have any budgeted (less than ~$10 per card) options for good wizards to replace the ones I am thinking about removing, I am all ears.
September 13, 2017 3:15 p.m.
Frank_Glascock says... #16
I went through the update.
I have been very close to putting Necropotence into the deck. I just think getting to triple black may be tough. The cut would be Rhystic Study. What do you think?
Riptide Director is getting cut for Glen Elendra Archmage. This has always been one if my pet cards.
I slotted in Merchant of Secrets for Sage of Fables.
Mistbind Clique is going in for Master of Waves.
You threw me a curve with Sensei's Divining Top. I guess Preordain is going to have whipflash.
September 13, 2017 5:21 p.m.
FrigidOfficial says... #18
Necropotence is almost certainly going in for me. It will most likely replace Comet Storm or Blue Sun's Zenith.
That's a good idea. Glen Elendra Archmage is a solid card that I would definitely play if I had the funds.
Merchant of Secrets is a good swap for the guaranteed draw.
Also a good swap. I like the Mistbind Clique land lock.
Sensei's Divining Top is an inclusion for me to fix draws. It's just a generally good card and if I'm taking out cards anyway, I might as well try it out.
I'm interested in that choice. Is there a different three mana rock that could be slotted out instead of Chromatic Lantern? Lantern is so good for fixing, especially with the high color costs in cards such as Patron Wizard and Azami, Lady of Scrolls. This also applies if we decide to include Necropotence.
September 13, 2017 6:03 p.m.
Frank_Glascock says... #19
Fellwar Stone could be the cut instead of Chromatic Lantern.
September 13, 2017 6:35 p.m.
FrigidOfficial says... #20
That's probably fine. Fellwar Stone can really bomb if we're playing against decks that only utilize one of our colors; if we're up against a selesnya deck, it's useless (assuming we're playing 1v1, but you could probably just slot it out in that matchup).
September 13, 2017 6:43 p.m.
Frank_Glascock says... #21
Was Gamble ever a consideration for the deck?
September 14, 2017 2:52 a.m.
FrigidOfficial says... #22
Gamble was never considered but can definitely go in. Assuming we have a decent amount of card space in hand, it should prove to work well. We have a good amount of spell recursion to reuse it as well as creature recursion if what we tutor for happens to be discarded.
September 14, 2017 9:13 a.m.
Frank_Glascock says... #23
Frigid, I am looking forward to your playtesting. You added Ghostly Flicker and kept Rite of Replication. I am guess you feel both have application outside of combo. Is Izzet Charm new to the deck? I see it in tuned competitive Inalla decks that use reanimation as part of their combo.
You are presented with the option of keeping three of these four cards: Ghostly Flicker, Rite of Replication, Ashnod's Altar and Phyrexian Altar. What would you choose? If you wanted to play all four what gets cut from your deck?
Would Mistbind Clique and Glen Elendra Archmage make it into your current list? What creatures would you cut for one or both of them if they did get included?
Am I wrong to think 1v1 you have a better chance against the dragon deck than the vampire? I have some experiences with our version of Inalla against a tuned vampire deck.
I agree with your assessment of Gamble. This deck should draw cards which mitigates the chances that it backfires. I have a Grim Tutor but I am a concerned about the loss of life particularly if it is recurred. Which would you play?
September 14, 2017 3:05 p.m.
FrigidOfficial says... #24
Ghostly Flicker and Rite of Replication both remain because of their different applications outside of the combo, as you said. Ghostly Flicker gets value out of some of our ETB wizards and, in the worst case, is expensive protection for our high value wizards. Rite of Replication can see huge results if we copy or kick copy something valuable.
I would remove Rite of Replication. It's more of a pet card for me at this point; yes, it can be valuable, but often a bit slow. The others are far faster combo pieces and have more inherent value.
I would cut Corpse Augur or Disciple of Bolas for Mistbind Clique. Glen Elendra Archmage can probably replace Voidmage Prodigy.
Against the dragon deck I will be playing against, the matchup is difficult. Grixis has a tough time dealing with enchantments, and the brew my friend plays utilizes them heavily. I have to mulligan for counters and removal and often wind up losing tempo because I have to be wary of him casting huge fliers such as Scion of the Ur-Dragon that become difficult to get rid of.
I don't think the life loss should be too worrisome. We don't have many effects that drain ourselves, and if you're looking to combo out quickly then life shouldn't matter too much in my opinion.
September 14, 2017 5:27 p.m.
FrigidOfficial says... #25
I forgot to mention that Izzet Charm is not new. I added it with a few other cantrips in an update a while ago.
FrigidOfficial says... #1
Dualcaster is usually going to be played from hand. The combo thus requires 4UURR.
September 11, 2017 7:38 p.m.