I was looking at the Laboratory Maniac's Inalla list. Augur of Bolas was a card I had not seen. We should be able to stack the triggers and with the token look at six cards. You have increased the number of instants and sorceries in the deck.

Augur of Bolas is interesting. We can maybe swap it for Corpse Augur to try and dig for our combo pieces.

1.Glen Elendra Archmage and Sower of Temptation are in my deck. I kept Voidmage Prodigy. I think I am going to test Augur of Bolas in place of Merchant of Secrets. Mistbind Clique is going in for Master of Waves.

1. How valuable has Intruder Alarm been? Wizards that tap for abilities in my list consists of Azami, Lady of Scrolls, Patron Wizard, Sigil Tracer and Jace's Archivist. The latter two have a mana cost associated with their ability. I think I have found my cut for Phyrexian Altar.

1. Those all seem like good inclusions. The deck is looking much more combo oriented / disruptive.

2. Intruder Alarm has been alright. It does wonders if we have Inalla out on board, and can get some value from the creatures you just mentioned. In my deck, I get some extra value out of Arcanis the Omnipotent with it. I would agree in swapping it out for Phyrexian Altar, though.

1. How did the 1v1 game go last night? I would caution you to not over analyze the 1v1 performance of the deck. I crushed an above average Kess, Dissident Mage deck yesterday with a Markov deck in 1v1. I designed the Markov deck to be multiplayer where it is average or slightly below average. 1v1 it is above average to possibly good.

2. Can you make sure I have this right? Mistbind Clique + Phyrexian Altar/Ashnod's Altar require 4U on your intial cast when you get priority following opponent's upkeep. After this, the token can be sacrificed to either altar to provide the one mana needed to pay for Inalla's trigger. This is done at the end step to keep the token till next turn and on opponent's upkeep to tap their lands.

3. Does Panharmonicon belong in my list? We have three combo creatures of which maybe Bloodline Necromancer would be used outside of combo. Docent of Perfection  ^Flip, Archaeomancer,Augur of Bolas, AEther Adept, Sea Gate Oracle, Trophy Mage, Venser, Shaper Savant, Snapcaster Mage and Trinket Mage use Panharmonicon. I removed Anathemancer.

Panharmonicon could be replaced by Reality Shift, Negate, Izzet Charm, By Force/Rakdos Signet (both on Laboratory Maniac's list), or Arcane Denial. I am playing Into the Roil to deal with Enchantments. I could possibly cut a land with the addition of Rakdos Signet as the deck would have eleven mana producing artifacts. This would keep Panharmonicon in the list.

1. Write-up of the 1v1 is on my newest update that I just posted.

2. I believe what you're saying is correct. The lock is similar to how the Wanderwine Prophets loop works.

3. Panharmonicon is sort of slow but has incredible synergy with some of our tutor wizards. Trinket Mage and Trophy Mage each grab four artifacts for just one more mana than their casting cost. Augur of Bolas and AEther Adept let us tear through sixteen and eight cards, respectively. Though we may not get something every time with Augur, being able to sift through sixteen cards for 2U is pretty incredible. I think it's worth if you don't mind the deck being a bit less efficient.

4. I would suggest running By Force over Vandalblast if you're using Vandalblast. In a faster meta, it's more efficient to run the former in my opinion. If you wish to replace Panharmonicon, I would suggest Izzet Charm. I've always been a fan of modal spells.

I meant twelve cards when talking about Augur of Bolas, not sixteen. The point still stands, though.

1. Thanks for the recap. I hope you would consider doing additional game updates. You reveal different lines of play for less experienced players like myself.

2. I cut Paradox Engine before these last series of changes. It may have been to get Rhystic Study back into the deck. Necropotence and Mystic Remora round out my enchantments. I can say without any reservation that Rhystic Study is superior to Phyrexian Arena. You are going to draw more cards and Rhystic Study serves as a quasi-stax effect.

3. Panharmonicon was replaced by Pact of Negation. This was a recommendation by another player. It makes a lot of sense. I usually think of Pact of Negation as a way to overcome opponent's counterspells on the turn we combo. This deck can also use it to thwart spot removal (Swords to Plowshares, Reality Shift, Chaos Warp, ect) on either Dualcaster Mage or Bloodline Necromancer when we are trying to close out games. Does this makes sense in my slightly faster version?

4. My average mana cost is 2.45. That involves averaging out the mana costs for Force of Will Blasphemous Acts and Cyclonic Rift over the course of ten casts.

5. Blasphemous Acts is another card you will see dividends from playing. It is probably an include even if you are playing in straight combo pods 50% of the time.

6. My plans for Mistbind Clique were derailed tonight. Still, I am playing both altars as redundancy for the Bloodline Necromancer combo and as value. Mistbind Clique is probably good enough to play on its own. The ability to land lock the table for 4U with one of the altars in play is pretty sweet bonus.

7. I talked with fellow Inalla player who was playing straight combo like us. He removed Wanderwine Prophets from his deck because it was too conditional on having an opponent without blockers. How often do you find Wanderwine Prophets to be your means to victory? I am not cutting it. I just wanted to hear you perspective on the card.

8. The new additions to the deck have performed well.

Augur of Bolas seems like a better version of Merchant of Secrets largely due to the two mana cost and the presence of the extra tutors in my version.

Gamble sometimes feels like it should be Grim Tutor or Imperial Seal yet it costs one mana and tutors the card to your hand. It won me a game tonight as I had eight or nine cards in hand (Rhystic Study) and Kess, Dissident Mage on board. I tutored up the Bloodline Necromancer combo and won the following turn.

Rhystic Study has been covered.

Into the Roil was substituted for Reality Shift. I would love to play both but that would require cutting Voidmage Prodigy or Glen Elendra Archmage. I am at 23 wizards and I want to avoid letting this deck get too fast and competitive.

All six counterspells are staying. I would consider a seventh in Negate if the meta was not so creature dominated.

By Force over Vandalblast is something I considered. How often do you overload Vandalblast?

Frigid, I would accuse you of spamming (right word?) your own thread as this is the 54th post. Instead, I think the blame rests entirely on the user with the funny last name (probably an alias) who posts at all hours of the night.

Hey Frank. I have been posting quite a bit on the deck, but I think it's worthwhile to have a transparent discussion so that anyone who wants to make suggestions can see our line of thought with changing the deck. Hopefully the TappedOut admins don't get to me :P

I have posted another update with possible changes based on your most recent long list of suggestions. I think many of the ideas are valid and will definitely try them out when I have the money / time.

As for the last few posts:

1. I enjoyed doing the game writeups. I'll try to mention my mulligan and opening hand more often; I couldn't remember everything after the game had ended. I will try to do more in the future.

2. Rhystic Study is looking to replace Phyrexian Arena when I can pick up a copy. It's less color intensive and more efficient. I still like Paradox Engine, personally.

3. Your change definitely makes sense. Pact of Negation as a way to interrupt a combo interrupter is a great idea, and since your list is faster it would make more sense for you to try to combat spot removal.

4. That average CMC is solid; we can safely dump our hand and refill in most cases.

5. I have looked at slotting Blasphemous Act for some of my weaker enchantments.

6. That's what I anticipated. Playing both altars as a redundancy effect allows us more ways to combo out than just relying on Ashnod's Altar, and playing Mistbind Clique gives us another pseudo win condition alongside Bloodline Necromancer. Our opponents thus have to worry about four cards as opposed to two.

7. Wanderwine Prophets is interesting in my meta where not everyone plays a ton of creatures. Some people in my pod play very few creatures and, if they do, they're usually weak and can be removed easily. I have been able to land the combo a few times and it wins on the spot. It's not something that I would tutor for, but is a huge threat and at the very least can be played to bait removal.

8. Augur of Bolas for Merchant of Secrets is a change I am now looking at making.

9. Gamble is probably being slotted in for one of my worse wizards when I have the money for it.

10. Into the Roil is a good change for Reality Shift. I was thinking about maybe taking out Terminate instead, as Reality Shift can prevent our opponents from casting non-creature spells.

11. Six counters should be fine, at least in my opinion. I assume you're still running Patron Wizard and I know you run Voidmage Prodigy, so we have 6 true counters, a recurrable Mana Tithe effect, and a likely few counters out of Voidmage. That should be enough in my opinion.

12. By Force is going to be better in most cases. I will slot Vandalblast out unless I am playing against an artifact heavy deck.

13. I was looking at possibly adding Chain of Vapor also. Thoughts?

1. The wincon with Wanderwine Prophets involve taking multiple turns off the player with no blockers until they are dead. Does the table usually concede given that you will have built up your board and most likely draw/tutored into your combo?

2. I changed Into the Roil to Reality Shift last night. You are right and I am overreacting to a Hushwing Gryff wrecking my game last night.

3. You are probably right about Vandalblast. I am going to note the times I cast Vandalblast and want it to be By Force.

4. Chain of Vapor makes every competitive deck list playing blue that I have seen. I looked at it for this deck. I worry in a slower combo deck like ours that opponents will take advantage of the sacrifice a land clause to hit our board. Am I off base?

1. If no one is able to stop the initial extra turn cycle by using Wanderwine Prophets, they usually won't be able to stop any of the other ones. The table has always conceded when I get the combo off, as I will eventually draw or tutor into a combo that definitively kills the table.

2. I think Into the Roil is still fine to keep. We have no real enchantment interaction and that allows us to hit enchantments.

3. I will also be testing more extensively; right now, Vandalblast usually tries to hit single artifacts.

4. The return our permanent clause isn't too bad in my opinion. Our average CMC is very low and many of our wizards have high value ETB effects. I cannot think of a situation off the top of my head in which something of ours being returned to our hand is absolutely catastrophic. I wouldn't play this card while we're comboing out, though. It would be more of a way to stop our opponents' combos.

1) You may be right about Chain of Vapor. Keeping one mana open to bounce a problematic permanent either on opponent's end step or on our combo turn is viable. Plus, it hits any non land permanent.

2) The only issue would be our opponent's bouncing Ashnod's Altar or Phyrexian Arena. You said you usually play Ashnod's Altar before you try to combo in order have a mana producing sacrifice outlet. Plus, if we wait to cast either altar and Bloodline Necromancer it ties Wanderwine Prophets as our most mana intensive combo at nine.

3) What do we cut for it? Into the Roil is the most similar to Chain of Vapor. Chaos Warp is our most expensive removal. I will probably keep my removal suite the same unless you have a strong opinion that we need Chain of Vapor in the deck.

4) I am not cutting any more wizards at this time. I am running 23. I need to play test the deck more but my sense is it is borderline too efficient. I want to be able to play this with heavily modified versions of the other tribal 2017 Commander decks and not in a competitive pod. It is my sense that even a total combo competitive version of this deck would not be the best by a long shot in such an environment. I will ask Dan of Laboratory Maniacs where he would rate the reanimator all combo Inalla.

I received confirmation that even the fastest and most competitive version of Inalla is not in the top 10-12 decks in the format.

Hey Frank. No worries about the ranking. I'm not really looking to make an ultra-competitive deck or anything. Most highly competitive decks are far outside of my price range and I don't have the time or playgroup that would commit to a high level of competitiveness regardless. My decks usually sit about around the 80-85% range and I'm fine with them being there. A fairly tuned, casual-competitive deck is what we're really trying to hit, especially within a semi-budget. When I have a brew that works well, I may turn this list into a casual-competitive primer.

1. Chain of Vapor hitting permanents at that time is precisely why I would put it in.

2. I think you meant Phyrexian Altar, but that's fair. We need to make sure we time Chain of Vapor such that we use it when it's absolutely one sided.

3. Chaos Warp may be the best cut if we decide to put Chain of Vapor in. 2R is much more expensive, and the permanent that we flip could cause problems in the worst case scenario. Chaos Warp is really a card for a longer game, whereas Chain of Vapor would likely be used for a faster combo based meta.

4. That's fair. I think I will likely sit at 24-26 wizards after all of my cuts.

You may know about this. It was brought to my attention Friday by another Inalla combo player:

"Aphetto Alchemist/Fatestitcher (with haste and copy) and Illusionist's Bracers gives you infinite tap/Untap." This allows:

A) infinite draw with Azami, Lady of Scrolls or Sensei's Divining Top

B) infinite mana with mana artifacts, or lands with Fatestitcher

C) infinite damage with Inalla

D) infinite counters with Patron Wizard

I would recommend only adding Aphetto Alchemist and the Illusionist's Bracers if you went this route. My reasoning is this combo is our second most expensive to execute. Bloodline Necromancer costs less based on your assertion that you play either Phyrexian Altar/Ashnod's Altar for value before the combo turn.

Aphetto Alchemist costs 1U + Illusionist's Bracers 2 + equip cost 3 + Aphetto Alchemist Inalla token 1 = 7U

Fatestitcher makes it 9U to execute the combo.

You could play the Illusionist's Bracers and/ or Alphetto Alchemist the turn before you combo. Our opponents would definitely attempt removal. You could possibly try if you were holding two counterspells.

Aphetto Alchemist that has synergy with our mana rocks, Azami, Lady of Scrolls, Sensei's Divining Top and Arcanis the Omnipotent (your list). Illusionist's Bracers works with those two creatures but is not likely to be viable outside of the combo.

My first impression was we would be adding two cards that would be dead outside of combo. But, Aphetto Alchemist is cheap and could be played early as a means to untap mana artifacts of which I am playing 10. Our opponents most likely will kill him the first chance they get. That is one more spot removal spell they will not have when we try to win with any of our three other creatures based win-cons.

Looking at my list Voidmage Prodigy, Sigil Tracer, Glen Elendra Archmage or Wanderwine Prophets are probably where the two cuts would come. I know you are on the fence about Voidmage Prodigy. How has Sigil Tracer performed? I am still at 36 lands and could cut one wizard from the list and a land. The player I spoke to cut Wanderwine Prophets because finding the open player to attack was problematic.

I am leaning towards not adding this combo. It is expensive and does not win the game on the spot. Inalla, Sensei's Divining Top, Patron Wizard, or a colored mana producing artifact have to be on the field for us to win the game. I would definitely flip to yes if you thought it was a good idea.

Hey Frank. I haven't had much time to try to new list out, but I've been looking at the new changes you've suggested.

1. Aphetto Alchemist seems like it would be pretty good to just slot in the deck over a less impressive wizard. It can let us do some interesting things and get a bit more value out of some of our tap creatures. As for the Illusionist's Bracers, I'm not too keen on slotting them in. I feel like they wouldn't get a huge amount of value. Inalla's ability would hit for 14 though, which could be cool.

2. Fatestitcher only untaps other permanents. How do we get infinite uses out of it if it can't untap itself? I may be understanding the interaction incorrectly.

3. I think I almost certainly have more instants and sorceries than you (which you can confirm or deny), so Sigil Tracer may be more worth for me to keep. It's not incredible but has definitely helped with cantrips abuse. It's probably the weakest card out of the four you listed and would be a decent cut for Aphetto Alchemist.

Also, if you've been hearing from other Inalla players that Wanderwine Prophets isn't working out, it may be time to swap it out. My meta is unique in that we either have many creatures or few creatures. Wanderwine can be a good sideboard against the latter case; in the former, however, it might just be more efficient to play another board clear.

1. I am not sure if Aphetto Alchemist makes our list without Illusionist's Bracers and that for me means this card is probably a pass. All the info on the combo was taken from a list:

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/inalla-archmage-of-combo/

I checked over his list. He is playing other non wizard combos such as Palinchron and Deadeye Navigator. Staff of Domination is one of the infinite mana win conditions and Laboratory Maniac is there to win through infinite draw.

There is a steep price to pay for all these combos.

A) Partial Paris is gone. He is going to have a lot of cards that are dead outside of combo. This is why we tried to keep those pieces to a minimum.

B) 30 lands

C) Force of Will is his only counterspell. This is bad-real bad. He can not protect his combo and he can not stop his opponents. He has to be the fastest deck every game and get very lucky at a competitive table.

D) Cyclonic Rift, Chaos Warp, Grave Pact and Attrition are the only interaction. No board sweeps besides Cyclonic Rift which probably gets cast for 1U most times in this list as he has one other spell (Chaos Warp) that handles stax permanents.

I think we have taken our lists in an entirely different direction from his.

1. I did not do any research on Fatestitcher because of the cost of executing the combo was too high at 9U. I would not refute your analysis of the combo.

2. There are 18 instant and sorceries on your posted list. By Force and Into the Roil/Chain of Vapor replaces Vandalblast and Chaos Warp. You have Gamble coming in for Corpse Augur. Blasphemous Acts probably replaces Kindred Discovery/Intruder Alarm. That puts you at 20 total instants and sorceries.

I am at 23 instants and sorceries.

1. I am a little surprised that Sigil Tracer is closer to the chopping block than Voidmage Prodigy. Has Voidmage Prodigy done better recently? Sigil Tracer always seems like a card that is great 40% of the time and a non-factor 60% of the time. It is conditional. You have to have it and another wizard in play plus 1U. I guess what keeps it in my list is the fact that you can copy opponent's spells. Have you been able to utilize it to copy opponent's tutors, draw spells and possibly spot removal?

2. Our choice of creatures seem to mirror each other. I believe I am playing three you are not. I know you want to slot Glen Elendra Archmage and Mistbind Clique in when you get them. I have yet to cast Mistbind Clique. This may prove to be one of those cards that has a lot of potential but in reality does not function well. You have not offered up an opinion on Sower of Temptation (discussion to follow).

3. I am in a pretty creature heavy environment so Sower of Temptation may be more viable in my list. It has only been played twice; both times stealing my opponents commander, Kess, Dissident Mage. You probably already know that I won both those games as Kess is awesome in our list.

4. The combo list I looked at did have Thalakos Deceiver. It costs 3U in most lists but most likely it will be 4U for us as we can steal another creature immediately with the token. Sower of Temptation may be the cut.

Both have evasion and cost the same. The issue is it does not make sense to make an Inalla token of Sower of Temptation without a sacrifice outlet. That scenario does provide removal for (1). Thalakos Deceiver is going to be played for 5U as the token will steal a creature that turn. We will be unblocked as I have never seen or heard of a card with Shadow. Next turn we again steal the best creature on the board. The major downside of Sower of Temptation is that any spot removal returns the stolen creature.

8) I would like to hear your thoughts on what creature to cut for Thalakos Deceiver if any. Voidmage Prodigy, Sigil Tracer, Mistbind Clique, Sower of Temptation and Glen Elendra Archmage is my guess as to the order you would rank the cuts (first being more likely).

Hey Frank. I do not mind the analysis of the other list. It's interesting to see the differences between certain brews and you succinctly and accurate described the other list's flaws and where our list thrives compared to it. With that being said, I'll try to dissect the newest post.

1. Fatestitcher is indeed not going in the deck. We may be missing something about the combo, but as of right now I don't think it's in the best interest to play it.

2. Sigil Tracer has seen value mostly in copying my opponents' tutors. Other than that, it hasn't gotten much value. I think running the card has its merits, but I feel more testing is in order. Voidmage Prodigy has consistently been solidly annoying, as it deters our opponents from playing cards (obviously). The tempo loss of keeping UU up is negligent compared to the potential tempo loss for our opponents; if we also have a counterspell in hand, it allows us to counter a bait spell and then the second spell (the spell our opponent would rather resolve) as well.

3. I will most likely take out Disciple of Bolas for Mistbind Clique, as I am still hopeful of the value we can get from locking the game. As for Glen Elendra Archmage, we will likely take out Voidmage Prodigy for it if I choose to purchase it.

4. I am wary of Sower of Temptation's usefulness, as my meta tends to have a decent amount of ways to kill off 1 and 2 health creatures with ease. In your meta, it way be better to play.

5. Thalakos Deceiver is interesting. I would try to cut Sower of Temptation for it in your list if you feel it may work better. If you find Voidmage Prodigy not working well enough, that is also another potential cut. Looking at my list, I could probably survive by cutting a basic Island in favor of another wizard.

6. I have also seen slower lists run Beguiler of Wills. It seems weak, though for one U more, we can steal a creature without having to swing at our opponents. Whether the extra cost for this steal effect is relevant or not remains to be seen.

1A) Sower of Temptation is an upgrade to Beguiler of Wills. Beguiler of Wills has way too many detractions to even be considered. It costs (1) more than Sower of Temptation, has no etb, does nothing the turn it enters unless you pay (1) for Inalla trigger and worst of all you are limited on targets. More than likely your best targets are going to be limited to stax creatures.

B) Is the removal in your meta more enchantment based or do your opponents use instants? I think there is value to cheating removal from players hands. I will tap out to play Glen Elendra Archmage and be ok with it getting exiled by Swords to Plowshares. That is one less removal spell out opponents will have to kill our creature based win conditions. Does this seem reasonable to you?

C) I think Sower of Temptation is the superior card to Beguiler of Wills and Thalakos Deceiver is superior to Sower of Temptation. Yes, it will need to be cast for 3U + (1) for the Inalla trigger and is a turn slower because of that. Shadow was "featured in the Tempest block and made a minor appearance in Time Spiral." Point is 99% of the time the token with Shadow is going to hit any of the other three opponents at the table. You do have to sacrifice the wizard which limits some of our other strategies (Patron Wizard, Voidmage Prodigy, Azami, Lady of Scrolls, ect). The upside is you permanently steal any creature and now you have the ability next turn to take another creature.

2) I agree with you that Mistbind Clique has enough upside that it warrants testing. Our opponents can respond by casting instant speed removal on Mistbind Clique and prevent their lands from being tapped.

Do you see anything in the new set that makes our list and/or is playable? I looked at the wizards and saw nothing that meets either of those criteria.

1. That's fair. I'm not even sure if I'm looking to slot in a steal-y creature in general.

2. Some of the removal is enchantment based, such as the The Ur-Dragon deck. The rest use spot removal and board wipes to keep me down. Playing a card solely to draw removal can be good sometimes, though it's frustrating to lose so much tempo.

3. If we have a sac outlet, we can sac Mistbind Clique to dodge spot removal, which is nice.

4. As for Ixalan:

5. Opt could be cute as another cantrip.

6. Siren Stormtamer could be interesting as a far worse, albeit blue, Mother of Runes. It also hits abilities, which is nice.

7. Pillar of Origins is going to be an autoinclude for us.

8. Vanquisher's Banner would be nice. But it's expensive and slow.

9. I was thinking about throwing in more yard hate also. Something like Relic of Progenitus, Nihil Spellbomb, or Tormod's Crypt to combat yard decks in my meta.

1. I think my meta is more creature based. Stealing generals is a good strategy for us where it would not be viable in a pure competitive environment. Thalakos Deceiver is a little on the mana intensive side but has the potential to force our opponent's hand. It would be hard in theory for this to be the first or even second worse wizard among the 23 in my version of the deck.

2. Spending four mana just to Thoughtseize a Swords to Plowshares (for example) out of an opponent's hand is not ideal. Of course, you might have paid four mana to win the game if that is all the instant speed removal they had and the threat of Glen Elendra Archmage forces them to use it.

3. I am not certain of Mistbind Clique. It can be used outside of Ashnod's Altar or Phyrexian Altar to stop an opponent from winning that turn or to slow them down. I just am hesitant playing a situational card that depends on having one of altars to possibly lock out our opponents.

4. Ixalan was kind to my Edgar Markov deck but I do not see any additions for Inalla. Pillar of Origins only works for 23 cards in my deck and I do not think it is better than the other mana rocks that are in the deck.

5. Tormod's Crypt is the most played graveyard hate card you listed in competitive circles.