Okay everyone, let's sit down (metaphorically of course) and put our minds together. When we started Noble, we decided to aim to make it a "5-turn format", where the best decks win on turn 5. This was to create a game where both players feel like they were active participants and had a chance to interact with the game. Over the past week, we've seen many cards become broken allowing for turn 1-4 wins, and this has led to a large banned list.

We're starting to feel that the banned list is too large. After all, no one wants to think of a great idea for a deck just to have it blocked by a banned list.

We could partially counteract this by making the format a "4-turn format". This would allow us to unban certain cards such as Splinter Twin and Jace, the Mind Sculptor. Moreover it would allow us to not ban several other cards. Personally, I feel that making Noble a 4-turn format is the right decision at this point. It still allows each player time to enact strategies and interact with their opponent, and it will make for a more manageable banned list.

It may even be necessary to go a step further and make it a "3-turn format", which I am not a fan of but it may simply be the correct choice given the number of strategies that can win on turn 3.

Please let us know what you think! Thanks to KorApprentice and Chamale for their insight on this matter. Thanks to the rest of you for your support!

Crivaro, that PDF is awesome. You are an awesome dude!

graft - turn 4 is reasonable. IMO we should bend to what the format determines is the correct kill turn. If monored burn dictates through lightning bolt variants that turn 4 is dead, then we shouldn't be banning all of the LB variants just to enforce this predetermined notion that turn 5 is the kill threshold. In reality, MRB will probably not kill on turn 4 consistently, as most people will gladly trade removal for Goblin Guide, and there are counterspells, disruption, etc. This doesn't mean that Splinter Twin necessarily needs unbanning however - if the deck is so strong that other decks have a hard time interacting with it and stopping the combo it may still need the banhammer unless you're okay with a little bit of format warping (it probably wouldn't be much, just MRB being honest and including Flame Slash and forcing black decks to main 2-3 more copies of Doom Blade)

Also, have another look at my BS deck, I made a couple of comments regarding the power level and history of BS decks in multiple formats.

Derp, Flame Slash won't help MRB against the twin - its a sorcery and standard splinter twin play is to EOT the flash critter

Maybe you could allow the reduction of cards/deck to 40 minimum allowing for a higher chance of drawing your bomb cards for combos?

40 cards would seriously increase the consistency of many combo decks, including my BS infect. Without the need for the cycling cards main that deck isn't nearly as weak against burn strategies. Also that idea helps aggro & control strategies much less than combo, as they get no real benefit from having less cards in their decks.

What this format doesn't need is more support for combo, combo decks already have made an incredible showing in decks built by people hoping to break open the format.

And here we go for a new Noble based on Earwig Squad. Yes, you heard right! Look out for it here: deck:squad-15-noble

I'd say keep the ban list light for now. The format is young, so burying it in cards that can't be played seems counterproductive. If that means turn-4 finish then so be it.

Again about mana drain: Sure, not that great. I didn't want an Ulamog's Crusher on turn 4 or a Mulldrifter for U anyways.

About the Scepter: It's almost certainly broken. Free LB every turn? Sure. Even something innocuous like Gitaxian Probe turns into a monster on the Scepter, drawing tons of cards. This thing is probably format-warping at the very least. I dunno about banning though, seems about on the same power level as decks which insist on storming out on turns 3-5. This will probably just help what I see as a future standard in this format: maining 2-3 Disenchant effects. So many Nobles so far have been enchantments/artifacts that it's nuts. Since they're usually hard to remove since decks don't main Disenchant effects usually I can see that fact pushing most decks towards maining a couple, and those effects will definitely be standard sideboard material - many decks will probably funciton at less than optimal playing capacity if their Noble is dead to Naturalize

Example/reason why forty cards would be a bust:

Take this deck: deck:pauper-chastic-flow, now let's make it forty cards...

4xBrimstone Volley, 4xShock, 4xIncinerate, 4xLightning Bolt, 3xPyretic Ritual, 2xArc Trail, 13xMountain, 2xGlacial Chasm, 3xExpedition Map, 1xEon Hub. -

Unless your neck was solid Blue with 4xCounterspell, 4xForce of Wills, 4xFoil, 4xDispel then some sort of 'Mill'ing option you're more than likely going to lose, all the decks would most likely focus on burn and the field/meta would become stagnant.

@mandroid:

Training Grounds and Pili-Pala do work... See, Training grounds makes Pila Pala's effect to untap one colorless, and when you DO untap it with its untap effect, it MAKES one color, which is reused to UNTAP pila-pala infintely, and as i said, it's broken....

WOW, what a beating. That combo is nuts, and exactly why I stated that stuff like Bramblecrush will become staples of the format.

Also, this is done: Training Grounds Noble

Not meant to be broken, just a reasonable combo deck. If anyone has suggestions which put this one over teh top plz tell me or just post a decklist which would warrent the banning of TG, or Izzet Guildmage potentially (only if there's another degenerate combo using him, which I haven't found yet)

Here it is, Pili-Pala being broken with Training Grounds and either Hermetic Study or Lavamancer's Skill one turn three for the WIN: deck:noble-pili-pala

And its decks like those where I like my mill deck lol. Milling for 12 turn 2 is very possibe.

Is mill even strong enough here? What turn do you usually mill someone out assuming you're just solo testing? Ultimately Tome Scour is 5/60 cards, or 1/12 their deck. LB for the same CMC takes out 1/7 of their life, so I'm skeptical about the ability of mill to kill someone who isn't playing Loam.

Hedton crab with fetch lands

Make that TS = 5/53 cards, which is a little under 10% of their library, compared to LB, which is about 14% of their life total.

Ultimately, you'll probably lose in a straight race against Mono-red burn most of the time.

Hedron crab sorry.. autocorrect is kicking my ass

mandroid, that is why mill is backed up by countermagic and bounce. Have you ever played a dedicated mill deck? Mill is indeed a viable strategy with the right deck, in any format.

deck:noble-confusion is mine.

Darn, my latest deck:noble-pili-pala deck is consideered being banned

LOL, i did preform my job for the day: Training Grounds = Ban Hammer... lol, there is nothing better to feel then to kill every one elses dream of using traing grounds to win :P

I did it with. Bloodcrank

The only other option would be to ban both Izzet Guildmage and Pili-Pala. Would that be more agreeable? I really wouldn't want to make the ban list much larger than it is, especially considering that we are trying to shorten it.

I think the real problem is Training Grounds. Izzet and Pili are just 2 things you can abuse with it, but I'm sure there is more out there (which would also be banned, and so on). Too bad, I really like Training Grounds. But: The dream isn't dead. Everyone loves this things can win turn 4 with Heartstone.