He's not bad in a control deck, just needs to be in the sideboard. It's easier to keep a permanent vs control if it never becomes a creature :)

I'm not so sure about having twelve temples. While they are very good for setting up draws, drawing too many early game can be fatal. I'm also not sure if this mana distribution would work given your deck. Have you tested this? Further, why did you increase your total land count to 27 and your Mutavault count to 3? You've written many times that 25 land has been sufficient for you, and mutavaults with tri-color decks are very hard to pull off.

One thing I disagree with is everyone relying on Keranos, God of Storms . He's great I'll agree but not necessarily to be relied on...... As of JOU there's going to be a ton of exile stuff in white and black and he can be so easily removed this way..... I'm just not sure about him in a deck where we rely on so few things to close the game.

I'm just experimenting and playtesting this. Never know until you try it! I'm honesty thinking about going with a grixis Aggro deck and moving away from control. Brainstorming at the moment. :)

I really want this to be great I really like keranos but I have a feeling gods won't be near as bad after JOU comes out.

@phaze08:

you're missing the main reason for his inclusion. With DrFunk27's build, he has a Master of Cruelties in the deck. Any direct life loss after his trigger resolves results in a game win. Keranos, God of Storms sets it up so that either he's dealing 3 or else drawing an extra card to get to something that will deal direct damage. He's PERFECT against midrange/control matchups and will probably be taken out vs aggro decks (just my opinion).

as far as the B/W exile "answers" go, there's only 2 from white that can hit Keranos, God of Storms without him being a creature: Banishing Light and Deicide

What black spell were you referring to that could remove the god when it's just in enchantment form?

Also, if decks start maindecking these spells to deal with the gods of Theros block, this opens up the gates for things like Desecration Demon or something else to finish off the opponent, and actually reduces the possibility of my opponent drawing a threat. We still have hand manipulation/discard/counterspells to deal with their "answer" to Keranos, God of Storms before we cast him

Deicide , Banishing Light , Chained to the Rocks , King Macar, the Gold-Cursed , Silence the Believers , Godsend , there's alot of exile in theros now.

Only in white as Deicide and Banishing Light can target Keranos, God of Storms when he is not a creature. He requires 7 devotion (5 from other sources) to become one, and if they target HIM with the "removal spell" then it still leaves the other sources alone that were originally adding to the devotion to begin with.

Not to mention that it will require 2 other sources of devotion to make him one. If you have Nightveil Specter out, the only ones that will add 2 to that by itself are AEtherling (which if this is on the field chances are you're going to win anyway), Jace, Architect of Thought (can be used twice to dig and then lower your devotion before casting Keranos, God of Storms ), or another Nightveil Specter . In either case you are ahead anyway so if your opponent exiles Keranos, God of Storms you're not any worse off and actually still winning.

Keranos, God of Storms will provide EXTRA damage or card draw so he will help to close out games faster, and doesn't need to be a "win con" on his own

If you want to do an aggro deck, I would suggest that you switch colors. At the very least, drop blue and pick up white. Right now, Orzhov midrange seems strong. You could take those builds and try to mix in some red to pull it closer toward aggro.

@DrFunk27:

In response to your post #55, I have been using BUG for the last couple of FNM's I've attended and I must say I'm thoroughly impressed. Kiora, the Crashing Wave , Sylvan Caryatid , Reaper of the Wilds , Abrupt Decay , and Vraska the Unseen have made it WORTH switching over to using green instead of red.

We still have Duress in the sideboard, and Golgari Charm to thwart Supreme Verdict . I am more of a midrange player and not as good of a control player as I want to be, so it's helped my standings quite a bit.

BUG is a really nice compromise between midrange and control. If you want to do aggro, your best bet is to go down to one or two colors for better consistency of mana, now that I think about it. If you want midrange with three colors, you could also consider Jund.

Jund doesn't have counterspells though. It has the best creatures/removal, however it doesn't stop an opponent from using a Brave the Elements or casting an AEtherling

Right, but if he were to want pure midrange, ditching control elements like counterspell is a viable avenue.

I agree. I have just been on the receiving end of too many of the aforementioned cards to cut blue altogether lol.

THAT and now I have my full playset and 2x Kiora, the Crashing Wave so I run a superfriends build that has a couple of counterspells also

I just realized they've spoiled Pillar of Flame tho with a new name AND IT'S AN INSTANT O_O I think it's that time of the year when we can go back to the draw-go Grixis :O BEAUTIFUL! Magma Spray is the one I'm talking about. Also looking forward to test Spite of Mogis , seems to be a really good spell at any moment :D

Yeah, they reprinted Magma Spray , but, you can use it only as removal, Pillar of Flame can target players too. Anyway, Grixis likes more of an instant removal than a sorcery burn.

So I made something of a Draw-go quickly just to see, I think it can actually work. Gotta try it one day tho I do enjoy the Tap-out Grix :D Grix Tap-out Try 1As for the Spray not targeting players, I doubt anybody has ever used it apart from the final 2-3 points of damage for that. Pillar used to be amazing to give us a last minute save from creatures we badly need exiled etc.

I've been doing some more thinking and I think that Izzet Charm not deserves a main deck slot now that Temple of Epiphany is out.

Gives us a much better shot at using it for removal on turn two, can still counter Thoughtseize /etc, and can help dig for a win con in the mid-late game. (or counter a non creature win con)

Thoughts?

I've always been a supporter of Izzet Charm seeing as it helped me loads in my pre-rotation Grixis Draw-go. However, with the slower format it's becoming increasingly rare to use it as a soft counter. The digging and the removal make it really good though, and it is insanely versatile! Oh the numerous times that little tool has helped me, but right now wouldn't put it in my deck, although I did have it in sideboard for a long period of time and it helped out a ton. I would say, playtest it, see how it works, my meta doesn't allow me to utilize it properly often but who knows about yours.

Izzet Charm should absolutely be used. In fact, I've been thinking the same thing. If it's good enough for Modern and Legacy, it's good for Standard. lol

I actually agree with harrydemon117 on Izzet Charm. The reason that it works in Modern and Legacy is that those formats are faster and many of those decks depend upon having the right set of cards for combos. In these cases, early game counters and cheap draw is more useful; but in not as much in standard because the format is much slower. Under the condition of a slower format, they just don't work as well by late game, too often appearing as a dead draw.

When you can draw two cards and discard two cards, it's not a dead draw in any format. lol I just don't know what to take out for it.

Specters I reckon shrug. That way the curve is gonna be even better woop woop :D

Why is it not good against slower formats? If you're sitting with Mizzium Mortars and Izzet Charm in hand, why not use the draw mode and get two new cads and ditch the junk? You get to CHOOSE which two cards to discard, so having dead cards in your hand is not that big of a liability anymore.

The question is, how many to run? I don't think that 4 is a good idea as we don't want to chance multiples in our hand, but I would also like to make sure I start with one from time to time. I think 3 is the right call here

IMO I would sideboard the Mizzium Mortars (a move I made lately as it's DEAD against control decks) and put Izzet Charm in its place. I would also make room in the sideboard by dropping the Silence the Believers as a 4 mana removal spell is just bad for a control deck (even IF it's at instant speed). You already have 2 x Cyclonic Rift to deal with pesky "gods", and counterspells and Thoughtseize to deal with them BEFORE they are on the battlefield. Chances are with all of your removal that the gods won't be animated as creature anyway, and just enchantments which would be hard to remove without Cyclonic Rift

I haven't seen you update this in awhile DrFunk27..are you still playing it?

Also, I've been thinking...what if we drop Hero's Downfall ? We already have access to Dreadbore and counterspells to deal with planeswalkers, and there are PLENTY of removal spells for us to choose from so why not use something easier on the mana? This allows us to focus more on U/R and use double CMC colored cards like Dissolve or Anger of the Gods which are CRUCIAL to us.

I feel as though Hero's Downfall is just overkill for what we are trying to do. Most of them can even die to a burn spell after their first use: Xenagos, The Reveler , Domri Rade , Jace, Architect of Thought , Kiora, the Crashing Wave , Vraska the Unseen .

Elspeth, Sun's Champion and Garruk, Caller of Beasts are the only 2 I can think of that really get out of burn range quickly, and we have Dreadbore , Thoughtseize , and countermagic to deal with those.

Thoughts?