SwaggyMcSwagglepants - Yeah, Sidisi, Undead Vizier is on my Acquire list, it's just $5 right now and my LGS is a bit overpriced on the couple they have, so I'm going to have to try the trade market. The demand is very high right now, so I doubt I'll find one any time soon.
I just converted from a reanimator (Whip) deck, so I know as well as anyone the power of a Whip, but where I've only got a handful of creatures, it's nothing more than a lightning rod for enchantment removal, then I'd feel obligated to toss in a Hornet Queen just for the Whip. However, I'm considering it as a sideboard item for aggro since the shocks from my Thoughtseizes, Abzan Charms (the draw ab) and Read the Bones tend to sting a little, even with four Rhino's. If nothing else, I'll keep a Whip close by in a Maybeboard if I can't make it fit in the Side.
April 1, 2015 7:02 a.m.
UpperDeckerTaco says... #3
Garruk, Apex Predator is too good not to include in the deck. Thoughtseize is way better than Despise. You already have so much creature hate, this helps against the other cards. Also, who cares about losing 2 life from Thoughtseize when you are running 4 Siege Rhino and 4 Courser of Kruphix. Satyr Wayfinder isn't necessary in the deck I feel. Utter End > Banishing Light. I would also add 1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon. If you cut all 4 Satyr Wayfinder, you could add in 1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon, 1 Garruk, Apex Predator, 1 more Elspeth, Sun's Champion and a 1 of Sorin, Solemn Visitor. Cut Banishing Light for 2 Utter End. Take out 2 Despise and sideboard Tasigur, the Golden Fang, add in 1 Thoughtseize and 2 End Hostilities.
April 1, 2015 8:06 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #4
If you're going to play Garruk play Ugin, the Spirit Dragon instead. I advise against Wayfinder in this deck, because you'd rather cast a Bile Blight on turn 2 and Wayfinder should really just be extra Read the Bones, wraths and removal spells. I also advise playing 3 Elspeths when you can get your hands on them.
April 1, 2015 8:09 p.m.
Thank you both for your input. Let me adress each of you, then both:
UpperDeckerTaco, I would, but you're looking at all the Thoughtseize, Walkers, and Utter Ends I own. Believe me, Elspeth, Garruk, Sorin, and Ugin are all on a dream list I'll likely never own. -- I agree that U-End is better than B-Light, but see the last statement. -- I know the four Rhinos are nice lifegain, but TS/Read/Charm all shock me, and their quantities can only go up, so I'm having to be quite cautious. -- If I Side Tasigur, the Golden Fang what match is he best in? Control? If so, decks like U/B have a couple dozen answers to him, so I can't see it that well.
GlistenerAgent, Playing with creatures, I feel like Ugin would be more disruptive to my own board than Garruk. Either way, I own neither, so I'll cross that bridge if and when it ever shows itself. -- Honestly, I really felt kinda yucky about putting the Wayfinders in when Sylvan Caryatid gives me beef, mana, a faster Courser of Kruphix (ability useable on T3), and a T3 Siege Rhino.
BOTH: I modeled this deck's inspiration by Jacob Wilson's SCGI-winning (#1) deck, and he ran 4x Wayfinders. /shrug
I look forward to more discussion! :)
April 1, 2015 8:39 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #6
You are a control deck. Ugin is a win condition. The removing of your own creatures isn't a problem in reality, as you can generally ride those creatures to victory anyway, and wait until they die to deploy your Ugin and wipe the board. You very often won't have creatures anyway, and so Ugin is an incredibly powerful card.
April 1, 2015 8:42 p.m.
UpperDeckerTaco says... #7
You should find a play group that has trade binders. Trading for cards is the best way to go in my opinion. It builds friendships among other players and yourself. I have guys I play with who will look out for cards I need and then we trade. It also saves your pockets from getting to emptied. I would advise you against using Sylvan Caryatid in a control deck. It does help you get Courser of Kruphix and Siege Rhino out, but you're not a midrange deck. You want to react to what people play the first few turns of the game. Ideally, you want them to play something, you kill it, rinse and repeat, and then board wipe after they over commit to the board, draw your cards and play bombs. It is perfectly ok to hold a Siege Rhino in your hand on turn 4 if you have some control cards as well. If they drop (for example) a Polukranos, World Eater turn 4, you want to get rid of it right then and there. If you drop a Siege Rhino turn 4, you just opened them up to playing at will. Control is a more reactive style rather than proactive. Late game is when the control deck thrives, to where they can cast a control/kill spell and drop a bomb all in one turn. Or just drop Ugin and you wipe the entire board, (even if it's your own) because now they have to answer Ugin or they WILL die. Ugin makes your opponent go from aggro to worrying about Ugin, which in turn allows you time to set up more of your powerful threats.
April 1, 2015 8:56 p.m.
I'm a midrange player by nature, having converted Abzan Whip into what you see here. I did try U/B Control for a while and it was fun, but a very different type of control than Abzan. U/B is all about countering and card draw, whereas Abzan is more cruel control killing and removing things once they're resolved... and because of the difference I'm afraid to be too creatureless, but it seems I'll just have to swallow my pride and try it.
I've actually won games against players who popped Ugin (and Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver for that matter). I find him to be one of the least intimidating planeswalkers of the bunch. He's a Lightning Bolt, a pseudo-Perilous Vault, and his ultimate seems almost useless to a deck with lots of spells and few permanents.
Would you guys fit Ultimate Price in? It's cheap removal, but conditional, which means it could potentially be a dead card in Game 1. Like Jacob's deck from above, most people are only running 1-2, which seems legit.
UpperDeckerTaco, I do browse binders, but the problem is that I rarely have anything valuable to offer since I don't buy packs. I'm really a budget player who occasionally runs into a good deal. Walkers are tough to get because they're always in demand, especially ones like Ugin. One of my pals just opened an account on TCGPlayer, so maybe I'll start looking in his direction for trades.
April 1, 2015 9:32 p.m.
Oh, and back to Thoughtseize, I did mention in the description that I would like two more to replace the Despise. Until I do, along what UpperDeckerTaco said, I've got enough creature hate; so should I replace the Despise with Duress?
April 1, 2015 9:37 p.m.
UpperDeckerTaco says... #10
I like Duress in this format so I would concur. Also, if you think ugins ultimate is irrelevant, think again. That 7 life you gain is amazing, to top that off, you get 7 more cards that also refuel your hand, even if 3 of them are lands, you just upped your land on the field and are able to play more than one spell a turn which makes a huge difference.And to top that, even if you hit a walker for free, that's HUGE!
April 1, 2015 10:29 p.m.
The_Dark_Adonis says... #12
With Origins out, or as good as, I think Dromoka's Command, or really any sort of enchantment control, is a must side-board. With Starfield of Nyx I think constellation decks will see a lot more play.
If you really want to switch to more of a creature/control style of play, I would highly suggest the new Vryn Wingmare to side in against hard control match-ups, since it should only hurt you slightly in comparison.
If you find that control is a difficult matchup then 1-2 of Dragonlord Dromoka is a must for your sideboard.
If you are having difficulty against aggro then Warden of the First Tree or possibly Brimaz, King of Oreskos would probably be useful.
About your sideboard, you should probably try and condense it. If you lose your first game and realize you need more board-state control a single copy of Drown in Sorrow will, more than likely, never get drawn.
As for the Sidisi, Undead Vizier recommendations I would try and avoid using her in anything without a decent mana-ramp aspect, but if games tend to go 7+ turns at your FNM events then she should be fine.
If your games are going longer then look into Tragic Arrogance as well. Not only does it almost wipe the board but you get to chose what everyone will keep. My only misgiving is it's not an instant, but that would just be unfair, just horribly unfair.
July 15, 2015 4:55 p.m.
Thanks The_Dark_Adonis for all that! I don't have any familiarity with the new cards yet, so I'll take more time later on if I decide to continue playing standard. Control usually eats my deck, but last night (as many tourneys go also) mono-green devotion just slaps this deck silly and calls it Nancy as they just play too many creatures too fast.
I know what you're saying about having singletons in the side, I ran into problems last night with just that... I'm gonna work on streamlining once I know more about *what to take out since sideboarding has ALWAYS been my Achilles heel in games. I've never been taught by Abzanites the good and bad in sideboards, so it's my biggest learning curve.
July 16, 2015 5:58 a.m.
While I check out the new cards, I'd love to know how to make this deck better with the cards I've got shown, or with a couple suggestions. DL Dromoka might be hard to get because it's pricey and sells quick at my LGS.
July 16, 2015 7:50 p.m.
BliefCallerOfBeastzz says... #15
Just play 4 Anafenza, the Foremost and you'll be fine. Reanimator Decks literally can't beat it and you're just faster, so they lose 90% of the time.
July 21, 2015 5:44 p.m.
Reanimator isn't my biggest concern. I'm having the most difficulties with Monogreen devotion (just ramp and swarm) and Control (counter everything I do and kill what few creatures I cast).
I'm also mainboarding a pair of Drown in Sorrows to get the edge on agro decks.
July 21, 2015 6:20 p.m.
BliefCallerOfBeastzz says... #18
Den protector and deathmist raptor. Beats control reallly well.
SwaggyMcSwagglepants says... #1
Sidisi, Undead Vizier is good, and if you want, you can load a little more "poddish" 1 ofs in your list. Whip of Erebos is also efficient.
March 31, 2015 8:44 p.m.