Narset/Geist Prowess /Rebound Tempo ("Jeskai Way")
Modern*
SCORE: 154 | 151 COMMENTS | 26291 VIEWS | IN 63 FOLDERS
CurdBrosBrewingCo says... #2
I absolutely LOVE Narset in this deck...having said this, I also love Chanrda Pyromaster...I know that in "theory" Ajani Vengeant has been considered a better "tempo" planeswalker historically (and it is a great card...and a good suggestion Saljen)...but Chandra truly does shine in this deck at the top end (i.e. for what I need the slot for). I know I say it a lot, but she honestly is great in the deck in actual play... I promise :)
The "top end" cards need to be "card advantage" in this deck. The games where tempo decks tend to lose (on average) are because:
You run out of cards before dealing all 20 damage (i.e. if the opponent gains life, etc.)
You can't get that last few points of damage through before the opponent "turns the corner" (and although you don't lose right away, the game drifts away from you over the next several turns).
Obviously, the unblockable/protection/evasion portions of the deck are meant to combat the second issue; however the first can only be combated with card advantage. You want to be pretty aggressive in the first few turns; but once the game gets to turn 5-6 (or sometimes 4+) you really want to have something that either (a) allows you to get in that last few points of damage and/or (b) starts refilling your hand depending on your position and the opponent. Chandra (and now Narset) do this perfectly.
Chandra simply has tested extremely well. Her ping's add up, the opponent HAS to deal with her (she only ticks up or stays even), the "take away a blocker" aspect is HUGE in many matches (and has been the reason I've won the game countless times...), and her "card exile ability" is essentially "draw a card" in this deck. She's just a perfect top end to the deck.
Ajani V. is better for a general tempo/midrange build...Saljen is 100% correct on that. It is VERY possible that Ajani needs to be in my board. Saljen made some great points; and actually Ajani is good in those match ups that Narset may be poor in (fast aggro, etc.)...I will certainly be testing this literally as early as tonight! Thank you for the great idea!
March 5, 2015 10:25 p.m.
CurdBrosBrewingCo says... #3
Saljen...Shu Yun is incredible in this deck; but you are right that I really do only need one. His ability and use is devastating; but you really don't want to play him until later in the game. I was getting a little creature heavy. I do understand your thoughts on Kiln Fiend; but this deck is at its best when it can "win out of nowhere" and that can only be done with large chunks of damage (which in turn can only really be done with Shu Yun and Kiln Fiend)...granted; this may only represent 20% - 30% of the deck's wins; but it is a line the opponent will always respect after they are hit for 10+ by one unblockable creature :)
This deck isn't meant to be the "average" Delver Deck (not meant in a bad way by any means...just meant as an explanation of what is universally considered a "Delver Tempo deck). The idea behind the deck is to attack "through" the opponent while controlling what NEEDS to be controlled and developing advantage in creative ways. The ability to have lines that deal lethal damage when the opponent feels extremely safe letting an attack go through (or simply not having the choice with unblockable/protection spells/abilities) keeps the deck just enough "off kilter" to ensure the opponent is never really sure if they should attack, should block, etc.
The deck is on the "aggressive" end of "tempo". Tempo is such a tough thing because many Geist decks with many control spells call themselves Tempo too (and they are...it's just a kind of "wide" description :)
Shu Yun nearly always deals 8+ damage. It is certainly something I want the deck to have access to. I've never been upset drawing Shu Yun...but I have been upset drawing the second one :) Having said this, I did reduce it down to 1 Shu Yun. I am running an additional land in it's place (as I feel like 20 lands is better for the current build). I added Eiganjo Castle as a "placeholder" for the time being; but am going to look into several options...please feel free to suggest any lands you think should be in the deck...I'd love and greatly appreciate your opinions. I can't thank you enough for the thoughts/ideas you've provided thus far.
March 5, 2015 11:28 p.m.
CurdBrosBrewingCo says... #4
scrotality and runningwithbeers....you are both exactly right...in just the little time I've had with her, Narset has done some absolutely bonkers things...I can't imagine the funny things people will rebound. I've enjoyed just rebounding Serum Visions, Lightning Helix, and Boros Charm...just provides excellent card selection/draw as well as a little more reach with the burn spells...I can't wait to explore the card more.
March 5, 2015 11:32 p.m.
But wait, there's more!
Rebound got spoiled as the returning mechanic FOR JESKAI (ojutai) when cards get spoiled, some might be worth putting in here. MIGHT.
March 6, 2015 1:09 p.m.
CurdBrosBrewingCo says... #6
6tennis- Your exactly right. Thank you for reminding me to post something about the fact that rebound is back. I was extremely happy when I read that rebound would be the returning mechanic for jeskai! Perfect timing for the deck. Hopefully there is a spell that puts this one over the top. Possibly a draw spell of some kind. I'm keeping my hopes up that we will get something awesome!
March 6, 2015 9:08 p.m.
This deck looks awesome, have you considered Ojutai's Command? Not really sure if it makes the cut but it looked like it could be interesting
March 6, 2015 10:19 p.m.
CurdBrosBrewingCo says... #8
Aurii- I have thought about that card and looked into it. At four mana it's tough to get into a deck that plays on the low end of the CMC scale. If anything I will give it a try in the sideboard, but I think it simply costs to much for this deck. I think it might see play in esper control or jeskai control. However, I never say never without testing the card in play so I will definitely give it a try. Thanks for looking and for helping with the deck!
March 7, 2015 3:33 p.m.
Tomazinhal says... #9
What do you think about Myth Realized? I find it not so bad, and being a creature in a non creature means Narset can "draw" it. Though I don't think it fully fill the role late game, early it will get huge, and rebound would be nuts with it :) What's your opinion?
March 13, 2015 10:33 p.m.
CurdBrosBrewingCo says... #10
I absolutely LOVE Myth Realized Tomazinhal....I've just started testing it; so I don't know exactly where it will fit; but I certainly will be playing it (even if it doesn't fit in this deck...I will find one!) People keep mentioning control; but I actually think it's better in a Tempo build (that plays cantrips, etc.)
I've also been trying out Thassa, God of the Sea (scry 1 every turn and always have an unblockable ability at the ready) which has been amazing in several match ups as well as Outpost Siege and Ojutai Exemplars...it's really just what assortment of these cards will make the main and/or board as the "top ends" of the deck.
The sideboard is going to change just a little as well. The last week or so I've been testing transformational sideboard options. I like the idea of being a tempo build that can transform post side to either control or aggro (not pure aggro or control; but can transform to either the "beat-down' or "control" player depending on what is advantageous in the match up. It has been working out very well...so I will post it ASAP with my testing results (as well as my results with the newer cards).
March 14, 2015 7:16 p.m.
Tomazinhal says... #11
Man, that makes both of us, the art is great and it's low costs are so appealing!
Btw, using those sideboard techs are just nuts, and even !pre fun to use, switching "archetypes" from a match to another just blows someone's tempo off :p
I will certainly look for those result and follow the deck! Cheers!
March 14, 2015 10:33 p.m.
Full spoiler for DTK dropped yesterday and I'm pretty impressed. Blessed Reincarnation & Great Teacher's Decree might be good candidates for rebounders, though their mana costs are pretty steep...I'm feeling Great Teacher's Decree might be better here, with Blessed Reincarnation being possible sideboard material. What do you think?
I've also been toying around with Myth Realized, and I found it to be quite easy to break. Isochron Scepter helps. Spellweaver Helix imprinting a rebound spell and something really good. Cast that rebound spell, and watch the sparks fly! Retrace is good here too, and they're BOTH amazing with Myth Realized.
March 14, 2015 10:42 p.m.
CurdBrosBrewingCo says... #13
Tomazinhal- I totally agree. I am working on making a sideboard that can basically move the deck to a more midrange control build or a more aggro build. I added a Mantis Rider and a Cerebral Vortex to the sideboard so I could go more aggro if I wanted. I love Cerebral Vortex because it doubles as a card draw spell or a burn (really life loss) spell.
6tennis- It was a sad day when I looked through the final spoilers to see that the rebound cards all cost about 2 too much mana :(. They actually printed exactly what I was looking for- an unblockable spell with pump, a pump spell, a protection spell, and a rebounding sleight of hand, and a team pump spell. I was really excited about the sleight of hand card and the team pump spell. Then I noticed the casting cost of all of these cards. WOTC must have been very scared about prowess and rebound together or the power level of these cards in limited because they really overcosted these cards. With that said, there may be a standard deck like this one and these cards will be great for a budget version of the deck.
You both hit the nail on the head for the card that I am most excited about testing- Myth Realized. I am adding one to the deck this weekend for my testing/playing. I will let you know how it goes. Awesome ideas 6tennis. I will definitely be giving some of those a try.
March 15, 2015 2:32 a.m.
Tomazinhal says... #14
Anytime my friend :) Cerebral Vortex sounds like a great idea! I've wanted to build a deck with that card, it can be an eot Divination
+
Shock
or ridiculous answer to anyone who is greedy enough to draw a lot of cards, such as control :p
Best of luck in your testing!
March 15, 2015 3:27 p.m.
March 15, 2015 3:35 p.m.
Tomazinhal says... #16
Lul Wut? Get fking rekt m8.
That's pretty brutal, but not suited for this deck ahaha, maybe in some EDH kind of deck :p
March 15, 2015 4:20 p.m.
Tomazinhal Yeah, just I can see why Cerebral Vortex is awesome.
March 15, 2015 4:49 p.m.
CurdBrosBrewingCo says... #18
Haha! That's a fun combo! I love stuff like that.
Yeah, I'm a huge fan of cards with multiple uses (like charms, etc.) and Cerebral Vortex fits that (burn when you need it, card advantage when you need it). It's great to talk to some like minds!
March 15, 2015 6:37 p.m.
i like the style of the deck, but it is very weird. lol. i hope it plays consistently for you. i didnt test it out, but i may later on. peace. +1 Come by and check out my Abzan Reanimator for Modern. Been playing it for a good while now, and I'm feeling a contender in the meta. Cheers!
March 15, 2015 7:10 p.m.
LocketRauncher The difference between Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest and Assault Strobe is that Shoe Young is more focused on casting a ton of spells and spamming its ability while Asphalt Stromboli is more focused on janky turn 1 wins. Like for example:
Goblin Guide, Swamp, Simian Spirit Guide, Mutagenic Growth, Tainted Strike, Simian Spirit Guide, Assault Strobe.
It's a bit godhand-ish, but hear me out.
Basically, remove your Similar Spooky Gibes from your hand to add to your mana pool, then play Swampert, cast Gobstopper Gallbladder, then pay 2 life for Mutavault Groupon, cast Ass-salt Lobe, then Taiwan Sprite. Opponent is dead.
Was that too confusing?
March 15, 2015 7:25 p.m.
LocketRauncher says... #21
Nope, I got that completely. No idea why you commented on my post which was pretty old in this discussion. W/E
As to the deck, wow this got scattered since I last looked at it. I assume a lot of these modifications are for testing purposes?
March 16, 2015 2:17 p.m.
CurdBrosBrewingCo says... #22
yeah...LocketRauncher was making some good points in the past about the more traditional decks in the past that took advantage of cards like Distortion Strike, Kiln Fiend, etc. They are SUPER powerful (and I wouldn't be surprised if they could run a tournament to be honest). I just wanted to develop a slightly more "competitive" or "playable" version of a tempo deck (as recent printings allowed us to take advantage of the rebound cards like never before)...he made some great points though that helped kind of discuss the differences between the decks.
While the deck is a little scattered at the moment; most of my decks will run several 2-3 of's and a few 1-of's (generally of lands and the "top end" cards). This comes with tuning the deck. To be honest with you, I've found that the best decks generally don't run a TON of 4-ofs (in my mind if you run into a deck list with just a bunch of 4-of's it probably hasn't been tested very much). There are of course cases where this is not true (some combo decks ,etc.) but for the most part; well tuned decks will run 1, 2, and 3-ofs while still running 4 of's of the "best" spells (like bolts, paths, serum visions, etc.) I am testing out a few ideas right now; however this is literally the current deck list I'm testing and playing.
It seems more "scattered" than it actually is also. The curve is still to my liking; and each card falls more into a "category" than an exact or specific card (i.e. the 1-drops are my turn 1 plays, there is the "control" package, the "burn package" (some cards of which are in both categories), the "early pressure", the "big damage creatures" and then the "top end/card advantage" packages. Many cards are interchangeable in each category (so if you weren't comfortable with Myth Realized you could literally just add a 4th Monastery Swiftspear, or if you weren't in love with Grim Lavamancer you can always play another Snapcaster Mage, or if you don't like Boros Charm you can run another Lightning Helix, etc...I've just found in testing that some cards in each category are better suited for certain match ups. Examples include:
- Grim Lavamancer is astounding now that Lingering Souls are running around
- Myth Realized is AMAZING in many match ups (ones including wrath, ones where you want to built up to one lethal strike, one where you are going to go long and have many turns where you have extra mana you can pump it with, etc.
- Thasa God of the Sea has been UNREAL in pretty much every match up; but any creature based match up she is going to be great as a continuous "unblockable" spell. The "Scry 1" ability makes it main-deckable (as non-creature based decks tend to go a little longer, where the scry becomes important).
So while you could remove most or all of the 1-of's and go a little more "linear" with the idea (i.e. switch them out for another Serum Visions, Helix, Snapcaster Mage and/or Shu Yun...) I personally prefer the versatility of choices and cards without really any loss of power. The "Core" idea of the deck to basically put on early pressure and allow very evasive creatures to deal huge chunks of damage quickly while still having some removal/control to keep the opponent from doing anything that could be extremely detrimental is all still there.
Let me know what you think! I've got a good chunk of time to test tonight so I'll post some more tomorrow! As always I love all ideas and comments to help make the deck as good as it can be. Thanks for the great discussion guys (especially recently the comments by Tomazinhal, MentorOfTheMeek, 6tennis, and LocketRauncher..) hope everyone else is brewing what they love! Do check out Mentor's reanimator deck (it's cool) :)
March 16, 2015 7:59 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #24
You should really put in updates more frequently.
Though that does give a wall of updates. But I think that is better than a wall of comments.
March 17, 2015 11:42 p.m.
CurdBrosBrewingCo says... #25
When a question is asked, I answer it :). I don't like leaving doubt in any reader's mind as to why I've made the choices I have. Traditionally, once the deck is basically "set" I will reset the comments. Until that time I like for readers to see all choices/work put into the deck (so they don't waste time with cards that may not work.)
I prefer to use the "update" function for ideas that are going to "stick" (rather than testing ideas); There is good news though...the deck is 2 slots from being "set"!
If you think this is too much info...you should see the primer :)
CurdBrosBrewingCo says... #1
Cavern of Souls is not currently in the deck. That suggestion was based on the discussion of removing a few creatures and replacing them with humans... I wanted to address this separately because it was brought up twice. Good points though!
March 5, 2015 10:06 p.m.