Hey man. First off, I loved your shimmer zur list. I have my own slightly budget paper version of it and it is so much fun to play.

Second, I think this deck is trying to go in too many different directions. I think you have to pick 2 or 3 out of stax, combo, cheerios, and control. The deck kept stalling out in gold-fishing the cheerios line, and kept coming up just short on the combo line. I think if you go all in on combo with the bare minimum of control/stax it may work best. That is just my 2 cents though. Happy brewing!

Hey, thanks! Shimmer Zur is very fun, there's a tainted variant I'm testing that seems to do pretty well too.

I concede the deck isn't complete in that some cards like Baral are suboptimal and will likely come out, but I made this to be played not as cheerios combo, but much closer to reactive Baral control or Teferi, when he's on the control lines.

The idea is, we run 12 counterspells (on par with control lists) as well as lots of cheap asymmetric stax. With Jhoira's ability, we cantrip off the artifact stax, allowing us to run 1-2 fewer lands and significantly more stax pieces, since we also run every good mana rock. We also get to play the blue moon suite to punish greedy manabases, and some creature wipes to handle the green Thras/Tymna dork menace. We finish with combo once we've gummed up the board and drawn enough value to protect it, but until then we play staxy control and draw into cards which get us to our combo later.

Unlike the cheerios or all in combo lists, we don't run cards that are dead without Jhoira on the field, and we sometimes don't want to cast Jhoira at all. In a flash hulk or otherwise T3-T4 meta, consistently landing a 4 drop early, with enough cheap artifacts to storm off is asking too much. It is asking far, far too much to also protect Jhoira while doing this. Recasting her as a 6 (or even 8!) drop while not impacting the board is not where we want to be.

In testing, it's been impactful in every game, when naming correct combos with the pithing-style cards and prioritizing the relevant stax pieces. So far in cedh pods, it's won 5 of 8 games I've played :D I'd ask that you try it again from the staxy control perspective if you're still interested in it.

Ah that makes sense. I don't play much with friends anymore since I moved so I mostly goldfish for fun. It is much harder to test decks that are reactive since I am playing to race to a combo. I will test it as you said. Thanks for the prompt feedback! I will also look into your other shimmer myr variant.

Hey Bolsheviktory,

I don't believe the words of wind combo draws your deck, since you're using both triggers to both each other so the line requires a Mana sink or enabler still such as top...

Also might want a disclaimer for rolling earthquake since it can very well kill yourself :D

Regards Iraruel,

Yep, nice catch. It only bounces all opponents' boards. You draw your deck with Sensei's and an artifact that nets 2 mana, not with any combination.

Your running hurkyl's recall but not retract. Why?

I don't like it in the staxy build because it's not an interactive card. We want to maximize our interaction, and hurkyl's + rebuild allow us to bounce opponents' stax or combo pieces as needed.

Thoughts on Treasonous Ogre to keep going? Also, you have 99 cards.

I think treasonous is a really cool card for decks that can use it for deterministic wins, or the eggs version which can storm quickly. I think in this deck, we'd end up paying a lot of life to whiff too often if we try for fast ogre shenanigans. In the later game we have enough mana to combo without the orgre

Hi mate i figured im gonna ask here as well.

Any replacements for Mishras/Taba/Twister or are they super needed?

Yep, sorry. I actually cut Mishra's fora basic land but didn't update it here.

Tabernacle just becomes a basic land or a pyroclasm, twister -> windfall.

Nice and easy budget choices here!

Sweet! You mentioned Jhoira is your favorite deck at the moment.

Is she more of a fun deck or can she hold her own compared to the top decks (Zur/Hulk/CVT etc.)?

Why did you cut the Lightning Bolt wincon btw? Is the card to good enough individually and we have enough wincons anyways?

Also wouldnt Power Artifact be pretty decent in this deck or is there no need because bounces? Also why no Retract?

Thanks for keeping your decks updated, you are awesome!

Thanks!

It very much competes with the T1 decks, I'd rank it around T1.5, similar to Sisay. It's currently sitting at 10/17 games won in my tracker, against decks such as Tazri, Teferi, Sidisi, Brekfast hulk, Selvala. Some of those were pods of 3 rather than 4, so the win rate is a little inflated. Regardless, it's very competitive and has been treating me very well.

Lightning bolt was removed because into the roil removes more problematic permanents such as rule of law or stony silence. Lightning bolt is a reasonable wincon with paradox and isochron scepter, but into the roil lets us draw the deck and generate infinite mana, which should also win. We can draw by bouncing and replaying an artifact, or simply by paying the kicker cost if we don't have access to Jhoira.

Power artifact only works with Grim, and I don't think we want basalt monolith. That's too narrow a combo, I think, since we still need a good outlet.

Alright that makes a lot of sense. Thanks for the insight!

Cool to hear that a fun deck like this also is viable to bring to a cEDH table!

Looking forward to what the future holds for this deck!

Hey what is your opinion on cards like Reiterate and Capsize?

Also would Possibility Storm be fun in the deck?

What would you consider flex-slots for meta depending calls like Spellskite or maybe Lightning Greaves?

Have you any other ideas to further tuning the deck or do you think its final for now?

Hope you have a great week! :)

Hey, I think we probably don't want to run the buyback spells, we have more efficient wincons. Same for possibility storm, it probably belongs only in a harder stax deck. We play too many counterspells.

Flex slots would be Rhystic study, sorcerous spyglass, silent gravestone, etc. Those are calls for my meta, like lots of activated wincons and storm/ Tazri.

I think it's in a pretty good place now, there's a primer in the works for a list to play into a blind meta, rather than the one I play in my meta.

Thanks, you too!

Hi thanks for the insight, you bring up a lot of good points!

Will the primer be on this page or on the shared list? Cant wait for it!

Btw would Shimmer Myr work in this deck or do we not need it?

I love this build! If you don't mind, I'm going to playtest this tonight against my playgroup at home. Meta includes Rashmi, Food Chain Tazri, Godo Helm, Gitrog combo, and Selvala.

Hey, thoughts on Possibility Storm? Its been one of the best stax pieces in my build and has allowed me to pull of insane comebacks. The sheer number of cards you get off of it with Jhoira, Weatherlight Captain is insane.

I think Possibility storm only belongs in harder stax metas due to it's cost. Even though you double draw from artifacts with Jhoira on the field, it also turns off a good number of our instants/sorceries

How about Expedition Map? With The Tabernacle at the Pendrell Vale + Academy Ruins and Buried Ruins would it not be worth it?

@swiftazn It might be a meta choice if you really need tabernacle frequently, but that seems unlikely. The majority of creatures in the format are dorks which can may for themselves, so this only works well with winter orb and/or cursed totem.

Map is anti synergy with our blue moon package, which we want to find against the frequent 4 color decks with greedy manabases.

I think the lands are good enough as utility pieces drawn naturally while we are getting a lot of value, and I think Pyroclasm is the card we would want more than expedition map in almost every case.

Isochron Scepter + Swan Song + Flusterstorm + Paradox Engine to make infinite birds can someone explain this one to me? Im lost haha