Jund burn-Is this viable??

Modern* 16smith

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raja479 says... #1

check your sideboard

April 23, 2015 3:51 p.m.

I run a similar list. Went 3-1 against very strong opponents, suggesting that yes, this is viable. I run only 1 Lavamancer and less volleys in the sideboard because they are unnecessary. I also run a couple of the Shard Volleys. Anti-twin is already in the glorious Rakdos Charm, and Destructive Revelry, so Volley is just overkill. I guess if your meta is 98% Twin, then that would make the post-board matchup very favorable, but I think its a bit unnecessary.

May 4, 2015 9:14 p.m.

16smith says... #3

Ancient_Sentinel It's good to see someone else running jund burn. What would you change Rending Volley to? I think -1 Lavamancer and +1 Shard Volley would be fine.

May 5, 2015 4:05 p.m.

marioman77 says... #4

What about post mortem lunge ? black card new pryexiaCheck out my pyro copy and burn deck if you have a min , needs some help

May 7, 2015 12:39 p.m.

I use 2 Skullcrack in the side and 2 in the main. I guess its pretty meta dependent, but for me I used 2 Guerrilla Warfare against the Abzan matchup and the growing LoamPox deck. Honestly, your deck seems pretty good already and sideboard is just based on local meta. However, my sideboard was a sorta "catch-all" because that 3-1 tourney was my first modern tourney ever :)

May 7, 2015 12:58 p.m.

16smith says... #6

Alright. Thanks for your input! Ancient_Sentinel

May 7, 2015 3:34 p.m.

quakenbake says... #7

Wouldn't white be a better splash for Lightning Helix and Boros Charm?

May 8, 2015 8:42 a.m.

"better" is difficult to judge. Perhaps it is, though it depends on your surroundings/meta. The good part about the black splash is that you get Rakdos Charm, arguably the best RDW sideboard option since it hoses so many decks (Twin, Graveyard Strategies, Affinity, Esper Tokens, Delver). Also, it lowers your curve using another Lava Spike instead of more 2s. We already have 4 Atarka's Command and 2-4 Skullcrack as well as 3 Searing Blaze and 4 Eidolon of the Great Revel. TL;DR Rakdos/Jund deck wins has lower curve than Boros Wins, so neither is necessarily "better" than the other, just different.

May 8, 2015 1:51 p.m.

quakenbake says... #9

I feels yah.

May 8, 2015 3:08 p.m.

16smith says... #10

quakenbake Personally, I feel that the white splash is different and pulls statistic out of ass about 10% worse. Like Ancient_Sentinel said Rakdos Charm neuters almost the whole meta and black keeps our curve lower. Atarka's Command is better than Boros Charm because the charm will ALWAYS be used for the 4 damage and I think a Skullcrack effect, plus some extra useful effects, is worth losing one damage. Also, the extra Skullcracks are very useful. I think that Bump in the Night is also better than Boros Charm just for the sake of damage per mana. Lightning Helix is only necessary because you're fetching and shocking so much but with this build we have acces to Copperline Gorge and Blackcleave Cliffs and this reduces our need for fetching shocklands. Also, with red/white you're still playing green for Destructive Revelry so why not go full out 3 color?

May 8, 2015 7:56 p.m.

quakenbake says... #11

In my defense I was thinking naya, but I feeled you like I said. All just preference.

May 9, 2015 1:23 a.m.

16smith says... #12

Thanks for your input quakenbake. I'm also testing a naya burn list here Naya Burn.

May 9, 2015 10:57 a.m.

NoPantsParade says... #13

I think Burn is better off without the fast lands, Blackcleave Cliffs and Copperline Gorge. I'd replace all 4 of them with 2 more Arid Mesas and 2 more Mountains. While insignificant in one game/match, the deck thinning that fetchlands provide will be noticeable the more games you play. I play Naya Burn, but I'm not a fan of Shard Volley. You could replace it with another Grim Lavamancer. Perhaps you could play two Combust or Rending Volley in the sideboard for the Twin matchup.

May 16, 2015 6:36 p.m.

raja479 says... #14

Why would you replace the best lands in the deck? They always come in untapped and allways tap for multicolored and never deal you damage. In the first three turns, deck thinning is too marginal to rationalize running fetches over these duals.

You also play naya burn. I now direct you to the comments section where differences were mentioned here. http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/jund-burn-is-this-viable/deck-update/130801/

Basically, Naya is slightly slower, making grim better and volley worse in naya, whereas jund focuses on the one drop damage dealers, grim lavamancer almost being a turn too slow for the damage output and fragility.

Diluting the sideboard seems bad when we already have rakdos charm seems wrong, especially since we don't draw that many, it neither combust nor volley is part of the game plan to kill the opponent through direct damage, and by turn four, any number of copies that twin makes just kills them with a rakdos charm.

May 17, 2015 9:07 a.m.

HSF117 says... #15

This is solely my opinion. Drop 2 Copperline Gorge and 2 Blackcleave Cliffs for 2 Stomping Ground and 2 Blood Crypt because you want to be able to choose whether or not your lands come into play tapped, not forced to because of an effect. There are certain situations where coming into play tapped or untapped are viable options but without the shocks you don't have a choice.

May 17, 2015 7:21 p.m.

HSF117 says... #16

You're a burn deck that doesn't care about its own life total even if you aren't playing white and don't have access to Lightning Helix

May 17, 2015 7:24 p.m.

NoPantsParade says... #17

raja479: The fact that you can fetch for shock lands and get the colors that you need is what makes the fetches better than the fast lands. The fetches give you a choice for your colors, making the deck more consistent and easier to cast those important sideboard spells. The fast lands don't always come into play tapped also. Burn couldn't care less about its life total when it's trying to kill its opponent as quickly as possible.

I don't think you understood what I wrote about the whole deck thinning. I said that in multiple matches, you'd notice a difference. Not just a single game. A single game doesn't make a difference. They're far from being the best lands in the deck, however. The traditional Jund plays them because it's an attrition deck and already takes enough damage off other spells like Thoughtseize and those life-loss cards.

I also don't understand how the sideboard is being diluted when it's not even complete, being just short of two cards, so I simply suggested those. Why don't you come up with better sideboard options?

And I apologize for not seeing that comment section where five people agree that Jund burn is better even though Naya burn has consistently placed more often than Jund burn.

Sure Jund burn could be viable, but I think Naya burn is just better placed at the moment given it has more sideboard options. Sure, Rakdos Charm is neat and offers tons of utility, but Naya has access to better options. Plus Twin could just counter the Rakdos Charm if need be whereas Combust can't be.

May 17, 2015 7:52 p.m.

tspearing says... #18

Just my opinion, but as someone who runs the card regularly, 4 Eidolon of the Great Revel is too many. It's nice when you get what you want, but I found too often you will draw into 3 or even all 4 of them, which is just too many when your playing all these 1 and 2 drop burn spells. It may just be my terrible luck, but I'd only run 2 or 3 of them.

May 21, 2015 8:22 a.m.

raja479 says... #19

When will you ever draw 4 eidolon in a 60 card deck that has zero card draw effects

Terrible luck or bad shuffling.

May 21, 2015 9:03 a.m.

HSF117 says... #20

I agree with raja479. It's going to be hard to see a 3rd or 4th Eidolon with no card draw effects.

May 21, 2015 9:31 a.m.

tspearing says... #21

Totally fair. I just seem to have pretty bad luck with four, and three has worked really well for me personally. Just my two cents.

May 21, 2015 10:21 a.m.

HSF117 says... #22

If 3 Eidolons work for you then that's totally fine.

May 21, 2015 11:04 a.m.

16smith says... #23

I haven't gotten a chance to test much but it seems to run about half a turn faster and the real advantage is in the fast lands. I don't lose life to them and I have skullcrack and atarka's command to answer their lightning helix.

May 24, 2015 4:01 p.m.

I've played a bit of burn mirror a bit before Dragons of Tarkir came out. Rakdos Burn vs Boros Burn was quite the matchup. The lower curve allowed nut draws to be even more backbreaking; Eidolon was only good in niche situations. Lavamancers were terrible as they were Searing Blaze bait. Also, I feel like you have a slight advantage if the game goes longer. Yes, they have lifegain, but your land topdecks are really not as bad since they just move you closer to the flashback, which sometimes relevant. However, I feel like the one card that will make your life a struggle is Kor Firewalker, which will gain upwards from 5 life, block for days, deal more damage, and win. You only have 2 plans against it. 1) Skullcrack to kill it if your opponent is not vigilant, or 2) use the fact that they have to search up shocks in order to Burn them out quickly before they can revitalize. Neither plan is very good, which is why I feel you are disadvantaged post-board. Overall, the matchup is pretty draw-dependent as the faster hands can just win. However, I feel like even with the fast lands the Naya Burn matchup is slightly unfavorable overall.

May 24, 2015 5:09 p.m.

HSF117 says... #25

I play Naya Burn and I feel like neither deck has an "advantage" when it comes to the decks themselves. Yes Jund has access to Bump in the Night's flashback and yes Naya has access to some life gain but I don't think, in my opinion, that they really matter that much. To me it's all about who wins the dice roll, who has the better hand and draws, which is what Ancient_Sentinel said, and who has the better mindset after figuring out that he or she is playing the mirror. As a burn player who runs 20 lands, 18 of which are fetches and shocks, when I play the mirror, I tend to slow down and reduce the amount of damage that I take, which also reduces the amount of damage that my opponent takes but even stopping 3 damage forces my opponent to have an extra burn spell. I said all that to repeat what I said earlier. It's basically who is on the play and whichever players has the better hand and draws.

May 24, 2015 7:42 p.m.

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