Hey I'm not sure if the :"Aurelia, the Warleader + Adarkar Valkyrie + Goblin Bombardment | Infinite Combat Phases" trick would work because Adarkar doesn't untap and thus can't give Aurelia the ability to bounce out of the graveyard more than once per turn. But I'm not sure, if I'm wrong please tell me and then could you explain how it works?

Hi crek,

To get this combo to work:

1) Tap Adarkar Valkyrie activate her ability and target the Aurelia, the Warleader

2) Attack with Aurelia, the Warleader, his triggered ability untaps the Adarkar Valkyrie

3) Use the Goblin Bombardment activated ability sacrificing the Aurelia, the Warleader as its cost and assign the damage

4) Adarkar Valkyrie triggered "bubble" ability returns the Aurelia, the Warleader to the battlefield from the graveyard

5) The Aurelia, the Warleader has a new card ID, he is NOT the same Aurelia, the Warleader, so return to Step 1) and he will be considered attacking for the first time this turn. Repeat these steps.

Even if they block and kill the Aurelia, the Warleader that is fine, because the Adarkar Valkyrie "bubble" triggers, and Aurelia, the Warleader already untapped Adarkar Valkyrie before declare blockers, returning a new Aurelia, the Warleader, unless they exile him, in which case, you should sacrifice him to the Goblin Bombardment in response. If they remove the Adarkar Valkyrie it breaks the combo. Adarkar Valkyrie also has Vigilence, so she can attack, and then later Tap to activate, but you have to do a risk assessment whether giving additional outs (blockers, target attacking creature abilities, etc.) to an opponent destroying the Adarkar Valkyrie when you will be doing Infinite attacks and damage already.

Didn't see it mentioned, but I run a Kaalia deck, and I find that pumping out Aurelia, the Warleader then swinging with Kaalia to put out Gisela, Blade of Goldnight, with your first combat and second combat pump out another beefy angel or demon, it makes people scoop turn six.

For some nifty protection for Kaalia, I play Skyblinder Staff, that way only creatures with reach can get at her. Not foolproof, but it's a good trick for when you have trouble with other flying on the field.

As far as board wipe, I expect a lot of blanked indestructible from Avacyn type decks, so I have a Eerie Interlude resolve then play Merciless Eviction for a powerhouse board wipe.

I'd swap in Anguished Unmaking for targeted removal, but I see a lot of indestructible in my play groups, which may not be a problem for you.

Hi Mikey2141 thanks for the suggestions.

Aurelia, the Warleader, Gisela, Blade of Goldnight, and Anguished Unmaking are definitely all in there, and I consider all of them part of the core group of cards, and their synergies within the deck.

For Skyblinder Staff, Its a good CMC to play, a little pricy to Equip. I've never specifically tried this one, but I've tried other variants by the way of Whispersilk Cloak which offers the shroud protection as well as CMC 2 Equip, Shizo, Death's Storehouse for a land based CMC 2 (Shizo + Swamp) effect. I've also tried other avoidance like Maze of Ith. But what I've found is that Flying is usually enough evasion on it's own, in cases where it is not, my targeted removal is usually sufficient. In most scenarios, my angels/demons/dragons are bigger than the blockers, or have vigilence so can attack and defend, often with indestructible, because Avacyn, Angel of Hope is frequently tutored for (wish I had Grim Tutor too). I just haven't found it as necessary, and have found haste is the real trick to success vs. unblockable. Also see Thundermaw Hellkite he can be good, he would also trigger nicely with a Eerie Interlude if you play that in your Kaalia of the Vast.

Merciless Eviction is the tough one. I've tried, Austere Command, Akroma's Vengeance, and Merciless Eviction like a floundering fish. What I've come up with is each is good in it's own right, and each is situational. In many cases the cycling on the Akroma's Vengeance has been critical, in some cases the modularity of the Austere Command, and in some cases the exile on the Merciless Eviction has been the only card in my deck to deal with a threat. So in short, I don't know. Merciless Eviction is excellent, but so are the others above. I find myself in cycles with playtesting, I go Aggro/Offense, then find I'm too weak defensively, then recursively go Defensive, then find I'm shelled and not Aggressive. I have Damnation and Wrath of God along with Austere Command in my current playtest, would it be better with Merciless Eviction instead, in many scenarios yes, in many no. The other day I found myself upset that the Austere Command doesn't cycle. Merciless Eviction is good against the Indestructible decks, so I understand why you would play it. Defintely combos well with Eerie Interlude. Austere Command / Akroma's Vengeance pair really well with Avacyn, Angel of Hope by herself without an Eerie Interlude, but if it's not solving your problems, then the Merciless Eviction would be key. I'll keep cycling between them, 3 board wipes feels right, I'll cycle back to Merciless Eviction but I'm not sure there is a final answer to be found.

Spirits What do you think about Persecute? Just ran across it the other day and really liked it against Reliquary Tower and players that sandbag their hands.

Hi trebek19. Persecute looks okay, in commander I try and avoid effects that only target a single player. In a 2-player format Thoughtseize and those type of effects, such as Persecute are more valuable. In a 4-player pod, you might weaken one player, weaken yourself (expelling this sorcery), potentially making an enemy, trust me in Kaalia of the Vast you usually have a few anyway, while leaving the other 2 players in a strengthened position. Also as commander is a heavy multi-color format, unless your playgroup has a large number of single color commanders, not sure this one would make the cut. If you run sideboards, wouldn't be a bad sideboard add against the drawing and Reliquary Tower play style, but I would opt to have a more aggressive or removal based card instead. Just how I play anyway.

Hey dude, I really dig the combos youre running here! After playing my own midrange-combo Kaalia for a while, here are my ideas:

Hero's Downfall, Mortify, Return to Dust, Utter End: why bother with expensive or narrow removal here? Youve got plenty of Wraths, big beaters that double as removal, Vindy/Anguished, and Swords/Path. I've never needed more than that, especially considering that a lot of competitive decks tend to commit less to the board. Admonition Angel would be another great one to try here, especially when you factor in the fantastic fetchland interaction and the ability to protect your own stuff if need be. Also consider adding more tutors and draw in these slots, bc its better to play a few great answers and a lot of ways to get them than a lot of mediocre ones and no way to dig.

I'd agree that Steelshaper and Stonefore are little weak. you dont need to commit that heavily to such narrow tutors when there are broader and faster options. The Transmute tutors Shred Memory and Dimir Machinations both add a lot to the deck, though I found Dimir Mach much more broadly useful as a way to get Vindy, Wheel, Necropotence in most games or Necromancy/Buried Alive in combo games. Shred Memory works for Greaves way better than Sculpting bc you have no other targets for the latter, but the former gets stuff like Drag Tempest, Abolisher, some removal and some draw, depending on what you include in the deck. Idyllic Tutor is a solid pick too, depending on the targets you want to run (Necropotence being the best, obviously).

New Avacyn eats Kaalia. Why you running this? Balefire, Bogardan Hellkite and Kuro Pitlord all do the same job without killing Kaalia, but I only run the first of those. Am I missing a trick? I'd love her to be good!

Finally, a few cards fall collectively under the "too narrow/expensive" umbrella: Entreat, Whip and Austere. Better stuff is out there, IMO.

Oh, one more thing. Have you tried Brisela? deep down I know she's way to finicky to be good, but I want to believe. Same situation with Plat Angel :)

Have fun out there!

Thank for the great comments JMCraig

Hero's Downfall seems a reasonable cut, I can usually output enough damage against a planeswalker, if needed.

Mortify definitely less priority, but semi-utility with creature or enchantment. Could be a tutor.

Return to Dust I find the 2 for 1 threat removal, and Instant cast if necessary, is handy. Only because it exiles. Most Commanders run a variety of enchantments / artifact, example: Purphoros, God of the Forge. Anguished Unmaking can handle it, but at 1 for 1 and added cost. Lower on my eval list.

Utter End I like the utility, but very expensive at CMC 4. Could be draw.

What happens with my control is cyclical, I find that I have too much control, remove a bunch, and then find I can't manage others plans. So then I add back, but then stall myself. I agree, the current build I've found I have too much control. Need to remove one or two of them.

Admonition Angel was in my original build, and it is an all-star. It is in my binder still. I removed it when my dual-trigger lands came out, like Terramorphic Expanse and Boros Garrison. It still triggers with Arid Mesa. If I remove 2 controls I'll definitely try it again, one of my favorite angels. Good call.

Steelshaper's Gift continually over performs, a Lightning Greaves with Haste and Shroud for 0 equip, eliminates all the removal / control problems that Kaalia of the Vast encounters. I consider it a CMC3 Lightning Greaves. Late in the game I have so few equipment cards, I've though about adding 1 more equipment. Whenever I see it in my opening hand, I know I'm usually on a Turn 4 or Turn 5 win attempt. Without it i'm slower by 1 or 2 turns. I've evaluated it long enough to know it's good. It's narrow, but gets me the one card I care about most.

Stoneforge Mystic has been on the bubble for me for some time. I think I'll sub her out for something else.

Hmm, Shred Memory I'm picking one up and putting it in, can pull my Goblin Bombardment too. Same with Dimir Machinations, and I'll add the Necropotence as well to utilize it properly.

Idyllic Tutor I found my enchantments weren't critical. It does pull to hand, I'll consider it. Don't like the CMC 3 though. But with Necropotence it would be good.

Archangel Avacyn  ^Flip I've found statistically, because of her Flash, can save Kaalia of the Vast or in other cases, more valuable angels like Gisela, Blade of Goldnight. The number of times she kills vs. protects has made her useful. In most cases I keep her in my hand waiting for a response to counter mass removal or a high value target. She is an Angel so can trigger if needed for free cast, or evades a blocker for a turn. I'll attack with Kaalia of the Vast free drop an angel, and then Flash cast Archangel Avacyn  ^Flip to make Kaalia of the Vast indestructible and maintain board position. Boros Charm is better, Avacyn, Angel of Hope of course, but she is also handy so far that i've found.

Austere Command I won't argue. It's been borderline for a while.

Whip of Erebos let's me trigger Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker combo in various ways. Plus I need the Lifelink when using my Maralen of the Mornsong synergy. It works good for my deck. I can pull a Karmic Guide or a Restoration Angel or Etc. quite a few different looks.

Entreat the Angels has been less valuable since the mulligan changes, but I've found an early miracle entreat increases my aggro curve by 1 turn, and it doesn't hurt me later. I've been on the fence with it though.

Brisela, Voice of Nightmares, Yes I've tried, Yes she is awesome. But Bruna, the Fading Light is SO BAD it ruins it. Several games I found Bruna, the Fading Light and was functionally useless for me in almost all circumstances. I found I don't need Brisela, Voice of Nightmares to win, but I've found I hate a Bruna, the Fading Light lol. So I don't know what to do with her.

Platinum Angel is annoying because it is so small, doesn't help me. If I'm losing it's because I'm playing 4/4 CMC 7 angels more than likely. But in some situations I get it shes good. I don't know what to do with him either.

Thanks for all the awesome insightful comments, going to pickup the cards tomorrow and try them out.

Ok, I see why you're focusing on greaves. In my meta, Wraths were a real pain for Kaalia, and greaves did t help there. What I found was that playing Kaalia early in most games drew hate that would otherwise stop my combo. So by focusing less on protecting Kaalia st all costs, I could make room for flexible tutors that get either beat down pieces OR combos once Kaalia had cleared the way. Focusing on her too much detracted from combo-ing out, and since she naturally pulled so much hate that she died pretty often, i won more games by being able to switch effortlessly mid game to the combo plan once my opponents depleted their hate options. The value of combo-midrange was that flexibility; Gorger (or Kiki here) got me those wins that pure beat down wouldn't.

I think adding a little more generic Beatdown kaalia stuff may make my deck smoother, but I like having the option to use her as a sponge and then pivot.

What do you think about running Crucible of Worlds and maybe the few fetches you are currently not running like Wooded Foothills and Verdant Catacomb? With all the fetch lands you could continue casting them, further thinning your deck and hopefully not drawing lands mid-game. It might also allow you to continue to ramp so if Kaalia is hated out you could keep up the pressure and start hard casting creatures

Is it too slow or do you feel its not worth it without mass land destruction?

Hey Iyenrithe

Crucible of Worlds is a great Kaalia of the Vast card. I have a few interactions in my Alternative Strategies section in my description.

Crucible of Worlds + Cataclysm or Armageddon or Ravages of War | Synergy Land Destruction

Crucible of Worlds + Command Beacon | Synergy CMC 5 Kaalia of the Vast

Also Admonition Angel + Crucible of Worlds is a great Synergy.

I've opted for a mid-range of Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker and Goblin Bombardment, but Crucible of Worlds is a very viable and effective mid-range as well. I like that Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker on his own can copy and has some good synergies Rune-Scarred Demon for example. Goblin Bombardment protects my creatures from being taken control. Crucible of Worlds and the Fetch lands would filter the lands out of the deck and make it concentrated and deadly too.

I'd really have to remove the Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker interactions to make the room for the Crucible of Worlds, feel like it's really one or the other.

Currently have 7 Fetch lands. I have 6 Dual lands and 6 Basic lands that can actually be fetched.

I always worry I won't have a land to fetch, not so much with , but and to a lesser degree . Let's say I pull a Polluted Delta and my Badlands, Blood Crypt, Godless Shrine, Scrubland and Swamp have been pulled or drawn. Not that worry some, but when going through red, and knowing i'm pulling for Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker it's possible.

Verdant Catacombs is a better option, because land targets are higher. I've thought about it, have it in my Maybeboard, but usually it's price tag discourages me from making the purchase.

Wooded Foothills only pulls a so I probably will leave that one out. If I put Admonition Angel back in I'll definitely add Verdant Catacombs.

In a Crucible of Worlds build though, I might actually go fewer Fetch lands, since I will be recycling my fetches, I'd want more targets for the fetches and less fetches themselves (unable to filter themselves) to aid in filtering the deck, but keep enough of the primary interaction colors that the mana base runs properly.

I don't think I'd ever really try and cast the creatures, if Kaalia of the Vast is being unsuccesful, I usually look to connecting on an infinite damage combo that's built in, usually using a Whip of Erebos or Animate Dead / Reanimate or Karmic Guide etc, to pull the pieces back from the graveyard.

Crucible of Worlds is a very effective mid-range strategy, if that's a flavor you prefer, it's a good one. I was thinking of moving Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker to my Melek, Izzet Paragon deck but haven't made that decision yet.

Appreciate the comment and the cards for consideration.

Hi Spirits!

I've bean analysing your deck again and have been wondering why You run Utter End. Isn't 4 CMC a bit to high for what it does ? I know it is instant, but I think that Council's Judgment is way better. Sorcery, yes, but it bypasses hexproof, shroud etc, since it doesn't target the permanent. And costs 1 less. Or is it that is to hard to generate ? But I doubt that.

Hi BlackWitch. Indeed Utter End is very expensive at CMC 4. I've tried putting in tutors Shred Memory and more importantly Dimir Machinations to pull the Anguished Unmaking to solve problems like Purphoros, God of the Forge primarily, or Omniscience, or Avacyn, Angel of Hope (not mine lol). In Duel Commander I would prefer Council's Judgment, but in a 4-player pod, and myself playing Kaalia of the Vast, I often find all 3 opponents will strategically team together, even if I'm not the strongest on the board, to protect each other until I'm not a threat. Sorcery is also very bad at responding to anything, I don't tap mana for anything anyway usually, since I'm playing for free with Kaalia of the Vast, so my mana is used to protect me Boros Charm, Path to Exile etc. Instant is King, imagine a Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge pulling a Cruel Ultimatum do I want to remove her before she attacks or wait till my turn, same with a Prossh, Skyraider of Kher with a Purphoros, God of the Forge resolved already, or Godo, Bandit Warlord that pulled a Loxodon Warhammer and triggers off of a Bruse Tarl, Boorish Herder. There's just too many possible scenarios that Instant trumps Sorcery.

Council's Judgment is also a great card, my deck is primarily Aggro/Combo, so I don't need that much control either. I found the tutor's were working, but they were costing me an entire turn (remember i'm aggro!) using the sorcery speed transmute. They were really awesome for modularity pulling a Goblin Bombardment for example, but wasn't worth the speed. I found with Transmute tutors I was running 1/2 turn slower. I'm really trying to find a way to be 1/2 turn faster right now! That's what I need. So Utter End, I dunno, it's clunky at CMC 4, but Instant + Exile makes it a functional card, even at an ugly cost. It's no Anguished Unmaking, If I could have two of those instead I would, but it's more valuable to me than the Sorcery + Opponent Council voting is in my build anyway.

Right. I forgot that in multi Council's Judgment might not end up exiling the card You want to be exiled, since it is true, that opponents usually would team up against Kaalia of the Vast ;)

I like the way You explain things. I might not be newbie in MTG, but compared to others, I'm still a beginner. So thanks for your replies. I appreciate it. Surely I've been underestimating the power of instant.

Yeah, speed is the same problem in my Kaalia of the Vast too. But I've decided to have more control, over speed. I think Kaalia of the Vast is very specific aggro commander. With all the big fatties and protecting Kaalia of the Vast from hate, it is really hard to be typical aggro. Defense Grid helps me a lot with all the hate I get (especially from ). So I steel keep it, even though I have 9 instants.

i think youre running way to many creatures try dropping 3/5 of them and in there spots run: Boros Signet, Orzhov Signet, and Rakdos Signet

Why settle for the riffraff wraths (Damnation & Wrath of God), when you could run the good stuff (Merciless Eviction!)

i may be bias cus dragons are my thing. but doesnt seem to have enough dragons/demons/angels

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/the-vast-whoopass/

Hi Jr88vette,

Thanks for the suggestions. Your deck is definitely a creature centric build.

The meta for Kaalia of the Vast decks are 29 creatures, I'm at 33, and have a couple borderline creatures I'm evaluation, Stoneforge Mystic, Thundermaw Hellkite, and Silverblade Paladin.

I understand the desire to beat people down and burn their corpses in the fire of a thousand dragons, but I need to have an alternative win condition built into the deck, which eats up about 6 card slots, just incase doing creature damage isn't working out.

Hey McKz thanks for the suggestion.

Agreed the meta on this deck is 29 creatures, I actually have nearly the standard compliment of creatures if you ignore my Dark Confidant (Card Advantage), Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker (Instead of Crucible of Worlds/Armageddon), Maralen of the Mornsong (Synergy/Combo), Silverblade Paladin (Trying him out to get 1/2 or 1 turn faster, his proc rate is high), and Stoneforge Mystic (Tutor). 33 - 5 = 28, 1 below the meta. It would be tough to go any lower, on occasion, but not often I still find I have a resolved attacking Kaalia of the Vast and nothing to drop. There is an argument to be made to remove the Stoneforge Mystic or Silverblade Paladin.

The ultimate reason why I've cut the Orzhov Signet is that I'm not casting the angels/dragons/demons ever, and usually my mana is untapped. I'm trying to get Kaalia of the Vast swinging turn 3 or 4 at the latest, and the Orzhov Signet requiring a CMC 3 to net 2 (2 cast, 1 activate) has burnt me so many times. I do have the Talisman of Indulgence in there CMC 2 to net 1 which allows me to continue playing. Too many times those signet have not allowed me to play a Sensei's Divining Top or Serra Ascendant that I gave up on them. I'd love to see another talisman in here, but there are none others in my colors. I have considered Orzhov Signet (primary colors) for another chance at the quicker ramp, but after turn 4 any mana rock is really a dead draw for me, especially one that requires CMC 3 to utilize. It's almost the same theory as lands that enter the battlefield tapped, which I avoid.

I've considered Mox Diamond but losing that land drop also feels wrong in Kaalia of the Vast too.

Mana Vault is a probable solution, but I dislike that you have to commit the during upkeep. if it was I'd have it in there.

Hey jaiaisaiah,

You've identified the continual struggle I've found with Kaalia of the Vast, how many, and which board removals are the correct choice. I've floundered between Austere Command (Modular), Merciless Eviction (Exile), and Akroma's Vengeance (Cycling).

Here's the theory behind Wrath of God and Damnation. On turn 4 or 5 or 6, I want to have a connected Kaalia of the Vast + Master of Cruelties, or a Kaalia of the Vast + Avacyn, Angel of Hope or a limited few others like Iona, Shield of Emeria/Hellkite Tyrant, the situational guys. To do that I need to remove blockers on Turn 3 or 4 maximum, that's tough to do with a Merciless Eviction, but not that hard to do with a Sol Ring and a Wrath of God. It's just a little too slow, it's simply just WHEN the spell resolves vs. the actual power of the spell itself. HOWEVER, in a few games, in which I did have Merciless Eviction in there still, it was the only card in the entire deck that could save my game, funny enough one game I drew into it and recovered. Merciless Eviction is very powerful, but a little slow.

I'm really trying to find an efficient way to tutor for Anguished Unmaking or Utter End which USUALLY can solve the problem. Utter End is a little borderline too because of it's CMC 4. Grim Tutor is on my radar. Gamble I keep feeling like maybe I should be running this, especially with Reanimate and Animate Dead at my disposal. Shred Memory, but that can't pull Anguished Unmaking or Utter End, and Dimir Machinations can, but without a Necropotence to pull its not as valuable. Gamble scares me because if it put's my Lightning Greaves into the graveyard that's a huge setback.

There's a good possibility that Merciless Eviction will find it's way back in here. Great suggestion.

Looking forward towards Amonkhet, would Cartouche of Zeal be worth a spot here?

Furthermore, what are your thoughts on Amonkhet's Angel of Sanctions?

Hi UR2L8. Thanks for the comments.

Angel of Sanctions is a respectable angel for Kaalia of the Vast. I think he may be able to take over a spot in the deck. CMC5 for a 3/4 is a bit heavy, but he can be cast from the hand at that cost, or with Kaalia of the Vast. He's not a threat at 3/4, but he is somewhat controlling with the Exile ETB. With built-in recursion it makes him viable. I would give him a playtest, see how he does.

I won't be trying a Cartouche of Zeal. It's an Aura, so it dies with the creature (Single use). It gives haste which is good, but I would rather draw a card with Crimson Wisps then prevent a creature from blocking once with Cartouche of Zeal. After the first turn haste does nothing, so don't see any need for this card to be an Enchantment as well, would be better served as an Instant. If you need additional haste Anger or perhaps Hammer of Purphoros/Fervor might be a better way to go.

Hi Spirits, love the deck!

Is there any room for Yosei, the Morning Star in this?

Thoughts on adding Cabal Coffers?

Also, do you have any recommendations for cheaper alternatives for the dual lands?

Hi Reosoul

The issue I find with Yosei, the Morning Star, is that he has to die, lots of people exile, also, he has to die to trigger which I feel is too slow for Aggro (I'm Aggro/Combo). Also CMC6 for a 5/5 isn't that much of a Threat either, with no static abilities, so he may actually be the very last to die. He also only targets one player, if it was opponents skip, it would be much more effective, basically buys a turn. By just hitting a single player in a 4-pod EDH (Duel Commander would be a different eval), isn't going to be that effective. For his size, CMC, and speed he won't make this deck.

Cabal Coffers is an amazing card, it's a nice way to spend $20 on a super swamp. In my build, I only have 6 Swamp, so it's generally not netting me much, since it's 2 to activate and taps itself so CMC3. Min need 2 of 6 33% of my swamps to net mana. Need 50% to net . It has awesome synergy with Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, but at 1 of 99 1% chance (can't fetch it), i'm not going to bank on a random draw into it.

Thanks for the suggestions, hopefully my reasoning makes sense!