Thanks

What do you think of Demon of Dark Schemes? He seems like a good one-sided boardwipe, and the reanimation possibility, if you manage enough .

I'm not a big fan, to be honest.

His ETB kills Kaalia, generating E may be too situational, and his ability requires a 2B to activate on top of that. Losing Kaalia can be a big tempo loss, and holding the guy in your hand to hard-cast later burns a potential threat early on. While he may have some situation use in a particular build, he just doesn't play well with Kaalia wants to do most of the time.

There's definitely cheaper ways to reanimate in EDH, and I think I may favor spending mana and wiping the board through Scourge of Kher Ridges than anything else.

I run an extremely similar deck to yours. I highly recommend Morbid Curiosity (from Kaladesh) in place of Arena or Reclamation.

Also, can you explain why you keep Bloodgift demon and Angel of Serenity? I feel they lack in immediate value, in comparison to say Scourge of Kher Ridges, or maybe even Skithiryx, The Blight Dragon.

Hey! Thanks for the reply!

The Bloodgift Demon's there because he's a pretty a balanced package, though I admit he's on the lower end of the creatures I run. He's card advantage (even bribery, at times) on a pretty easy-to-cast stick. I realize casting creatures is one of the last things that Kaalia wants to do, but when you're forced to, he isn't a bad choice.

Angel of Serenity is a left over from my earlier days. While I consider her lower on the pole that Bloodgift Demon, she has pulled more weight than some of the previous creatures I've tested. Admittedly, she had more value I was running sac outlets/tuck protection (sacrifice her to Butcher of the Horde or Phyrexian Tower in response to ETB for permanent exile), but I still find that works well enough with a Swords to Plowshares or Path to Exile (Pathing your own creature to exile three of theirs? It isn't bad).

There's a few ways to use her outside of that. You can ruin someone's tempo by holding 1-2 of their cards hostage and targeting something in your graveyard. If they remove the angel, then they have to recast their creature(s) while you get a card or two back. Other times it's just graveyard hate or a matter of "I need these things gone for this swing", and getting three targets out of the way is pretty decent for that. Right now, though, I'm interested in testing her ETB out when I get my Strionic Resonator.

As for the Scourge, I have no problems with finding him a slot. It's just a matter of finding a foil of him in a trade or at a comfortable enough price. Skittles is powerful on his own, and while I recognize that, I would love running him if I could consistently make him a two-turn clock. If I had a consistent means to just give me a measly +1/+0 to up that clock, I think I'd feel better about him. Still, I may undervaluing him even without that.

Is the reasoning for Bloodgift Demon the same reasoning for Karmic Guide and especially Baneslayer Angel?

Hard casting Karmic guide when behind can be a godsend. And potentially good values when ahead.

But do you value the lifelink on Baneslayer that much when behind?

Thanks for your in-depth responses. Nice to hear reasoning from a seasoned, foiled Kaalia veteran.

Yeah, comparing them to Bloodgift Demon is pretty apt.

Karmic Guide is a Kaalia-cheatable reanimator. While she's a bit expensive for the effect, being able to cheat her out mitigates that for the most part. She plays well with Dragon Mage/Wheel of Fortune when you draw into her, and if Kaalia gets killed, you can let her go to the yard and play Karmic Guide for a "cheaper tax".

Baneslayer Angel was primarily a meta call (Prossh and Skittles), but I found the cheap CMC and the lifegain to be more relevant that I thought. Between the painlands, Necropotence, Reanimate, Anguished Unmaking, Vampiric Tutor, and usually always tapping out/swinging all in, your life can and will fast.

Again, like Bloodgift Demon, I consider them on the shallow-end of the creature pool, but their unique attributes all keep them right above being cut. Really, I think the current creatures on the ropes are Rakdos, Lord of Riots, then Ob Nixilis, Unshackled, then Baneslayer Angel and/or Karmic Guide (despite my arguments for them). I've tested a fair number of the creatures that Kaalia has available and have grown comfortable with this list, but it really could be improved if Wizards prints 2-4 more "shock and awe", big-splash creatures like I outlined in the primer.

Havoc Demon / Demonic Hordes / Tyrant's Familiar ?

Also why do you not include any Planeswalkers? Such as Sorin, Grim Nemesis for example? Btw i love your deck. +1 from me, definitely. It's so fucking ''clean''! Love it.

Thanks for the upvote and reply! As for your question, it's mostly a matter of value.

Planeswalkers are at their best when they can survive for multiple turns. I quickly discovered Kaalia's want and tendency to swing all-out left you without a way to protect them. This often turned Planeswalkers into one-hit wonders, making me consider them less of a multi-turn value-house and more of a one-time, multi-modal spell.

For example, Liliana Vess was in the first draft of this deck for her tutor ability. I quickly discovered that she mostly survived for one turn. Yeah, sometimes I'd get two used out of her, but those sometimes were rare. Leaving a fatty untapped to block for a planeswalker is often worse value than just going for the damage, not to mention fruitless if there's more than on creature to block.

Realizing I'd only get one use out of her, I started thinking of her as a 5 CMC "spell", comparing her abilities to other similar "spells". What I got was either a 5 CMC "stricktly-wrose-than-Duress-variant" or a 5 CMC sorcery speed Vampiric Tutor, both pretty bad values. I ended up cutting her for either Diabolic Intent or Increasing Ambition, since they provided a "faster" effect for similar mana.

That ended up a bit longer than I intended, but there you go. I tend to break most planeswalkers down like that if I can't protect them or they can't protect themselves. You could do the same and figure out why I don't run Sorin, Grim Nemesis when compared to the other available forms of card draw and removal in the format.

Oh! I didn't see that you posted twice.

• Havoc Demon - I passed him over for the same reasons I passed over Archangel Avacyn  ^Flip and Demon of Dark Schemes- the chances for his effect to backfire on you outweigh the potential benefits. He's arguable more dangerous to your own boardstate than the other two to boot.

• Demonic Hordes - Actually didn't know this one existed. Seems interesting but slow and mana intensive. I may try this out one day.

• Tyrant's Familiar - This is actually a pretty good card, not to mention the best of the three creatures in the the "Kaalia-cares" portion of this cycle. He used to be in this deck and Balefire Dragon took his place. Given how unhappy I am with Rakdos, Lord of Riots, I may give give this a shot at least until I get a foil Scourge of Kher Ridges.

Could you explain why you took out Overseer of the Damned? I'd take this guy over Tyrant's familiar if you're looking for removal since it happens instantly instead of waiting a turn to attack. Having those zombies to block when you tap all your creatures mitigates those life problems you have too in your meta.

Also what about Savage Beating? Other than obvious Kaalia triggers and massive damage, I believe it is a good card late game. Having just a utility flier out and 7 mana turns into 20+ damage and can win the game.

Skyline Despot? Immediate value in the card draw, puts a target on you, but it shouldn't be too troublesome getting monarch back? When ahead, makes dragons without the lack of immediate value in Utvara hellkite. When behind, pray that card draw gets you something good.

congratz on the foil demonic tutor too :P

Overseer of the Damned, if I recall, came out around the time I added Angelic Arbiter, Master of Cruelties, Sire Of Insanity, Steel Hellkite, or Rakdos the Defiler. I forgot the specifics, but there was a decent run where it either felt underwhelming or lesser priority than other fatties. I do still think highly of the Overseer, and in retrospect, "should" have kept him in over Rakdos, Lord of Riots.

As for Overseer of the Damned vs Tyrant's Familiar -

• Overseer's ETB is typically a one-shot effect that doesn't require you to connect. Either casting it or cheating it out, you'll get what you want the turn it comes down. The static zombie effect can make chump blockers but never provided a satisfactory level of value (Barring the one time the player to my left reanimated a Sheolred- Good times.)

• The Tyrant can also "kill the thing" the turn it comes down, but relies on Kaalia being there (can't imagine hard-casting it, unlike the Overseer). Still, if Kaalia can swing then it should connect netting you removal "on-par" with the Overseer. What the Tyrant has over the Overseer is a prospect of long-term value. Where the Overseer can provides a one-turn answer, the Tyrant can bring multi-turn removal and serve as a long-term threat.

Savage Beating is interesting, and oddly enough, something I've never come across. I'm adding it to the maybelist and test it sometime soon.

Swear I covered Skyline Despot in a previous update. Does Tappedout delete them after a certain point? Either way, the Despot is "alright" but the monarch mechanic seems more a detriment than a boon. The crown allows Despot to replace himself, but for much the same reason I don't run planeswalkers, Kaalia can't do much to protect it. Anyone with a mana dork or half-assed creature could "Take the Crown" from you, inviting damage and netting them a card, possibly drawing into answers or combos, while also rending the Despot's second effect useless.

Thanks for the congrats! Hopefully the Fellwarstone gets reprint or I can actually find someone with one on Deckbox/MTGS.

Thought you might like to know about this. This guy also has great ideas for Kaalia. You'd enjoy the read.(http://http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/forum-1-vs-1-traditional/206319-traditional-commander-kaalia-of-the-vast)

Huh, thanks for that. We seem to share some of the same ideas, especially what he calls "Flameblast Syndrome".

It's interesting to see what a 1v1 Kaalia deck looks like. His creature count is much lower and he focused on early game hand disruption, and he knows what to swap out for multiplayer matches.

I'm interested in maybe fitting in Skeletal Scrying somewhere, but I still haven't had a chance to playtest the deck in its current state. My LGS is running an achievement-based commander league, and I'm finding Mizzix and Marchesa to be more capable of abusing their point systems. This will be the last week, so I might get a few games in depending the player drop-off.

Thanks for the reply!No problem man. Happy to help.

I have been looking all over for interesting Kaalia decklists and tips. From Youtube to all sorts of forums and guides. And in my search I have yet to find a list that is more attractive than yours. And yours is very "clean"!

All it took was one look at the creatures you run and I knew you had put alot of effort and time into it.

Anytime I see a decklist I compare it to your list. Then I note all the cards they are running and all the ones that you do not. As well as their reasons, if given.

Essentially I am gathering cards for a massive "sideboard" list, for your deck, and then a variation of it that works for me.

After that It will never be too difficult to optimize either list for anything.

It will just require thought and reason with a little bit of hope and imagination XD.

I have alot of admiration for you and your deck. It has helped me out alot!

I play almost exclusively with two other friends in 3-way FFA matches. So its from that viewpoint that I make my comments.

But I'm looking to break into a more competitive scene at my LGS to see how I rank up with the people there. So you can expect alot more suggestions from me in the future.

Sorry for the long post. Thanks for reading. And happy holidays!

Haha, thank you! I always appreciate feedback. It means a great deal to me. Kaalia was my first EDH deck. I've seen her evolve alongside my understanding of the game, so to receive praise for her is particularly rewarding.

How do you find her in your 3-way FFA matches? I know she doesn't scale well with more people, so I'm curious as to how she'd function in a consistent 3-man environment. I'd imagine an optimized 1v1 list built under the multiplayer banlist, a sort of half-step between the list you shared and my own, would fair well in that environment.

Intense Kaalia of the Vast build. Very shiny and cool. +1. Fellow player Kaalia, the Purifier

Not much to say really, quite a power house, really nice work.

Grim Tutor perhaps.

Steelshaper's Gift or Stoneforge Mystic for another connected CMC 1+ Lightning Greaves or a Sword of Feast and Famine

I've found Dragon Tempest has been good, with the Mother of Runes and Grand Abolisher it can be as good as the Lightning Greaves

Can tell how much work and thought has gone in, planning on reading all your dialog when I have a few minutes to spare.

Honestly, my 3-man group is rather too casual for a very competitive deck. Hence why I have not introduced them to my Kaalia deck. I will, however. And very soon. It should motivate them, hehe XD!

It will be a few months before I can give you good feedback from my group. They each have one deck. Meren and Leovold. After they have optimised their decks better, then we will see.

But yes, you are right. That is excactly the approach I will be taking. I might put in a few planeswalkers since my opponents are rather passive with their decks, until they are ready to blow someone up in one turn. They don't respect planeswalkers, so i'll teach them the hard way, lol. They will thank me for it, later.

At least the Meren player will be on a budget, I do not know how far the Leovold player will go. But this is also the reason I want to break into my LGS meta.

Now here is a combo I found interesting. One I intend to try out myself. This guy takes credit:[http://wordofcommander.blogspot.is/2013/02/my-decks-3-kaalia-of-vast.html?m=1]The combo is essentially:Sunforger+Mistveil Plains. I have also always liked Wild Ricochet. And I love that I am not the only one who is running it with Kaalia. If used by the combo it becomes a counterspell. Steal and double their tutors/removal spells. I salivate at the thought, lol.From what I have read Iona, Shield of Emeria is a frequent Bribery target. But with the combo and "Wild Ricochet" its a double tutor for free that you can use on any player. It forces players to be careful. Its arguably a bigger threat than SoFaF.

This will hopefully help you figure out your dilemma with SoFaF. Personally I would want both in my deck. But that might cause me problems since i'd need to cut something else. We will see.

I also want to test up to 6 planeswalkers. In the end I might very well reach the same conclusion you did and end up cutting them all. But I need to reach that destination on my own through testing and experience. We will see.

What is the price of this deck un-foiled? Im building a similar deck and could use a quick price tag. BTW this deck inspired me to build my first commander deck!

Hey, glad it helped you out!

I'm showing $1,093.74 with the cheapest edition in LP-NM, on TCG Player. The reserved list prices on NM cards are weird right now, so expect to pay another $100-300 to get everything in near mint.

Lands are over a third of the deck's value. You could easily swap out the the more expensive options for budget duals or basics, doing your best to avoid ETB lands (Kaalia likes it fast). I'd say the best way to reduce the buy-in cost would be to skip the ABUR duals, enemy fetchlands, filter lands, Cavern of Souls, and Volrath's Stronghold. That'd save you almost $415 right there. The filters aren't 100% requires, by the way. I'd run snow basics if I didn't come across the expeditions for the bling factor.

As for the non-land cards, the most expensive would be Mox Diamond, Mana Crypt, Linvala, and Ravages of War. Those'd run you about $210 all together. I'd say the priority among them would be the Crypt above all else. Ravages is vital if you rely on MLD for your win condition, but thankfully you can always use Impending Disaster as a budget option. Linvala has value depending on your meta, and the Mox might be a personal call- I've seen arguments both for and against the Moxes. Either way, both could be back burner cards depending on how the deck plays for you.

All said, that's about $625 you could trim off the top, before accounting for budget replacements. It brings the buy-in from $1,100 to about $475. You could get the deck running for even less than that using creature filler or other budget stand-ins.

For reference, here's the in-cart prices of the specific cards I mentioned, mostly in LP:

• $80.81 Badlands
• $71.27 Mox Diamond
• $71.19 Scrubland
• $53.98 Cavern of Souls
• $52.99 Mana Crypt
• $52.44 Plateau
• $48.00 Arid Mesa
• $47.99 Ravages of War (Judge promo)
• $36.74 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
• $32.90 Marsh Flats
• $27.90 Volrath's Stronghold
• $24.75 Fetid Heath
• $19.29 Prairie

Good luck! Oh, and note that Kaalia's deck will be released in the Commander Anthology bundle that they have coming out soon. It may lower the prices on some of her cards, as well as Kaalia herself (who's running around $30 right now, i think?).

Oh, by the way, if you click on the orange "TCG Player Tab" it should add the entire deck to your sort. You could then use the cart optimizer to change the editions, conditions, and such.

The other option is to copy/paste the list in their Mass Product Entry, which should show up on Google. It basically does the same thing button does, but you'd still do well to run them both through the optimizer.

Herald of Anguish? Seems weak, but is a threat that "has to be dealt with" at some point.