Yea the only thing I'd use to scry are the Temples.

After playing them a bunch of times and even vs control I never sided out Bile Blight . Something to consider for the new removal cards.

hey Viral_Assassin, just wanted to see if i could get your opinion on my dega deck i am trying to make. Yes, i know the answer. just let me know what you think i could put in and/or cut to make the deck not feel so clunky. the power level is there, but the consistency is not. I am trying to use Archangel of Thune instead of Blood Baron of Vizkopa . I like your idea of Last Breath in the mainboard.

Aurelia, Rakdos Cackler, Cryptborn Horror, Warleader's Helix, Angelic Skirmisher, and/or Carnival Hellsteed?

Thanks for your comment! Some interesting ideas for sure. I might play test Warleader's Helix and maybe Aurelia, the Warleader . The other cards you suggested just didn't feel control enough. Neither does Aurelia, the Warleader but she is a bad ass angel :P.

In a midrange/control deck that runs white, Elspeth, Sun's Champion needs to be run

I will see what I can do, I do like her. Thanks for the suggestion!!

Love your deck, it looks a lot like my varriation- B/R/W Dega control

Have you tried High Priest of Penance ? It could be a nice removal that can replace Sin Collector .

Hey this deck looks sweet. I'm a big fan of this color combination. I feel like in your current build you are underutilizing the interaction between obzedat and the whip. I think it's wrong to mainboard 2 whips and only have 1 obzedat throughout your entire 75. Right now in your sideboard you have 2 elixir of immortality. Im not sure what matchup this is for unless people are running rampant with mill at your local store. I think if these 2 slots are for anti control cards then an extra 2 obzedat would suit you very well. I think he's a house against decks like esper/UW.

Thanks for your feedback Jamms! I am running two Whip of Erebos and one Obzedat, Ghost Council because I like how much synergy Whip of Erebos and Archangel of Thune have together. I think I will how ever make room in the Sideboard for him because I do see what you are saying and how I could abuse how much Whip of Erebos and Obzedat, Ghost Council work together.

spawnofBolas Sorry it took so long to get back to you. I have a large amount of spells that can deal with a lot of different spells the opponent can cast. I feel like High Priest of Penance is a very interesting card but I already have many ways to deal with stuff that he could deal with. Sin Collector works better (in my opinion) offering both a stronger body and is able to target something I have a harder time targeting and that is the spells that could ruin my day late game. I do like the suggestion and will try to play test it A.S.A.P.

Okay. And I love this deck. I currently run a Dega deck myself, Exava and Friends (HELP ME PLEASE!!!), and you have definitely inspired me to change some cards in it. Thank you for the ideas! :) +1 (as you see from the title I need some obvious help)

I would recommend using Brimaz, King of Oreskos instead of Fiendslayer Paladin . Don't know how big the money is considering he is 25 dollars right now, you don't seem to mind that much because this is a pretty expensive deck, but I think he is just a better card, well depending. As a straight up harder hitter, but he doesn't have any evasion. For the same casting cost, having the double white in a 3 colored deck, He is harder to deal with in combat, can continue to block and attack with vigilance, and can produce an small army if unchecked. I believe he synergizes better with Archangel of Thune better than the paladin because the fact that you can make Brimaz's tokens keep getting stronger. The only area that the paladin outclasses Brimaz is in evasion, if you find that the can't be targeted by black and red spells helps you out that often then keep him, or at least consider Brimaz in your sideboard, thats where I don't know what to take out, don't think he is better than Lifebane Zombie , maybe the Duress and a Revoke Existence . How do you do with drawing creatures by the way? With a deck that has them as a win con you don't have that many, granted each one is hard to deal with.

When I was looking for my three converted mana cost creature, it came down to Brimaz, King of Oreskos and Fiendslayer Paladin . There is three reasons why I run Fiendslayer Paladin over Brimaz, King of Oreskos .

First reason : Fiendslayer Paladin synergies with Archangel of Thune a lot better than Brimaz, King of Oreskos does. I understand that it might work out better with Brimaz, King of Oreskos because of the tokens getting pumped. They would only get buffed though by turn 6+. Where as if Fiendslayer Paladin on the field with Archangel of Thune turn 5, Fiendslayer Paladin and Archangel of Thune get buffed the same turn she is played. Which brings Archangel of Thune out of Mizzium Mortars range before it becomes their turn.

Second reason : Fiendslayer Paladin dodges about half of the most common removal spells in both Red and Black in this current meta. Brimaz, King of Oreskos gets hit by them all usually the turn he is played, before he can make a token. In the way of evasion they both are lacking. They both get blocked by the same kind of creatures.

Third reason : Fiendslayer Paladin has lifelink and Brimaz, King of Oreskos does not. If I have a Whip of Erebos out then it would be no problem, but that still is not until turn 4.

For these reasons I will continue to run Fiendslayer Paladin over Brimaz, King of Oreskos Mainboard. I do not know if I would run him Sideboard either because I am not sure where he would fit in against different match ups that my spells I have at the moment do not already do, so for that reason he will not make it to Sideboard at the moment.

I draw in a good amount of creatures. Having an almost equal number of spells to creatures is working out very well. Having Whip of Erebos definitely helps keep up my creature pressure. Some of my non-creature spells also act as win-cons (in my eyes). Rakdos's Return is great on turn 4+ to get rid of their late game and secure your victory. Slaughter Games helps remove their win-cons in turn letting our win-cons do more work.

Thank you for your feedback, it is greatly appreciated! I will do some more testing with Brimaz, King of Oreskos to see what can be done, where he can fit because I do like him and he does offer a lot for his converted mana cost.

Something that might be nice for this deck is Warleader's Helix . It is very versatile for getting you out of a bad situation to killing creatures and burning your opponent out. Also it works with Archangle. Also you deck seems a little weak towards aggro and it is the perfect card against it.

Thanks for your suggestion! I used to run Warleader's Helix in the sideboard but found it pretty slow and I was always playing something else above it like a creature or cheaper removal. It didn't really shine in many match ups that I noticed. I might try playing it instead of Doom Blade though to see how it does. I do see what you mean though, that it can help is situations. Especially the lifegain. My deck is not that weak to aggro, not the couple aggro types I have played though. I have a huge amount of early removal and if not then my early creatures do the job. Mostly G/x monsters and others similar. I my area not many people play RDW at all so finding that match up is rather difficult.

• 2 doomblade+2 Dreadbore It's more planeswalker hate, and it even hits black things? Who cares that it's slower :P

-1 whip of erebos(most of your creatures have lifelink already, you only need one whip for the obzedat combo)+1 Assemble the Legion

Hey, thanks for your suggestion! The reason why I have Doom Blade over Dreadbore is just exactly what you said. It is slower. I have enough Planeswalker hate in the form of Hero's Downfall and just creatures in general. I needed more spells that took care of problems right now instead (like an attacking creature, or an ETB effect ) of later and Doom Blade fills that role. It does suck that it does not hit black creatures but all of my other spells do so I find that as an even trade off.

I had two Assemble the Legion in the Sideboard. I used to run it Mainboard and I would always just keep it in hand because there was always something better to play in that moment of time. I am not saying that it is not good, or that it wouldn't help. Just for most of the situations where I had it in hand, something else was always better. It helps greatly in the Control match up. I will re-play this card to test it out and see where it goes from there.

As for Whip of Erebos . I have two in here because I want it to show up often. I do not run many creatures and this helps me get more value out of the creatures I do have. Also the amount of creatures I do have that have lifelink might be changing shortly as Fiendslayer Paladin has been letting me down lately. I will play test with one less and replace it with Assemble the Legion most likely for testing.

Thanks again for your suggestion, and if you liked the deck don't forget to +1 it as that helps get the deck noticed by many others!

I would like to thank narahi and rocklobsterfinn. I have made those changes after I play tested them more and they all worked pretty well together, better then before.

What is your plan against Colossal Gruul ? Is Archangel of Thune lifegain/pump just enough ? I played a similar list since before the rotation (Dega Scream, which is not up-to-date since I just felt the urge to play Dega again), and I found that Colossal Gruul is a very bad matchup (based on many 0/2 losses with very good hands for me), and I can't seem to see why. My guess is because my LGS had both a Colossal Gruul player and an Hexproof player : removals are not compatible. I was running most of the time 3 Lifebane Zombie maindeck, and this one didn't cut it. I wouldn't side in Devour Flesh , because Gruul doesn't have protection from black (I don't remember at least).

I really liked Lifebane Zombie , because the only time I am unhappy to see it is vs MBD, however, it didn't seem to be enough in matchups like Gruul, where I desperately need it (basically he comes too late).

I would suggest 3 Revoke Existence , somewhere in your 75. The field is filled with enchantments, weapons, and some creature-enchantments. I wouldn't play less than 2.

I also found that Read the Bones is strictly stronger than Underworld Connections to find immediate answers, and that Underworld Connections is better for grindy games, what do you think of it ? Have you tried it ? I personally played 2, and complemented it with 2 Magma Jet since the loss of Faithless Looting (RIP). I am overall very happy with the card.

I can suggest Alms Beast , in place or complementary to Desecration Demon . Before you freak out, It has been very efficient for me, because sometimes I found myself in situations when I don't want Desecration Demon to get tapped down at all. It is very good. It can be put in the sideboard for matchups where Desecration Demon felt more like a betrayer than a helper. The lifelink given to opponent's creatures is irrelevant, always. Pro ? Doesn't get tapped down, and literally stops any smaller strategy. Con ? It doesn't fly. People are divided on that card, I can understand why, so I'll let you judge for yourself what you think of it. Last iteration has Desecration Demon , mostly because of that Hexproof player. But Alms Beast did a lot of work when it was on duty.

I am also concerned about Red Devotion, and basically anything with some haste. I would suggest 2 Blind Obedience in the sideboard in place of 1 Pithing Needle and 1 Slaughter Games . The real target of Pithing Needle is AEtherling (usually a one-of, and the one for Slaughter Games is Sphinx's Revelation . Thing is, an uncontested Rakdos's Return will end most likely the game.

Lately, I prefered Celestial Flare instead of Devour Flesh , because it removes threats that matter, and not mana dorks. I use it in my Bant control list, and it does a huge work. Also, it gets rid of threats through all kinds of protection. Con, it's WW. You can throw a Blood Baron of Vizkopa in the face of an obvious blocker, and delete that blocker. I became a huge fan of this removal.

I really have to rebuild, update my list, and also add a description. I think I'll do that this evening. Between then and now, I played a lot of B/W Midrange, which had more results, and now I'm on Bant Control. But I feel in my gut I need to play Dega again. Thanks for your very motivational deck man, +1 for you.

Thank you so much lonewaer for your feedback! The match up with the Big green decks is not that bad for my self. Just have to keep a Hero's Downfall in hand around T5. It is also why I run Doom Blade over other removal other players prefer like Devour Flesh (mainboard). It takes care of the big green creatures with little resistance. The reason I sided in Devour Flesh against them is because it was just extra removal I would need.

I used to run a deck with Lifebane Zombie Mainboard but unlike yourself I would be disappointed almost every time I saw it. It just wasn't what I needed at the moment. It was also like you said, I would never see it when I needed it during the matches where it would shine most.

I used to run Revoke Existence but then found it not that useful but with game day coming up pretty soon and at the place I am going to play there will be like 80 of us so I should really prepare for everything! It will be brought back into Sideboard but only as a 2x of.

I totally agree about Read the Bones and Underworld Connections . The only upside to Underworld Connections was that it was instant speed to use it and it cost one life less. With all the life gain I have I think I can make the change so I can have answers now opposed to later. I will change these two up.

I can see your argument with Alms Beast but to my self personally, that is giving the opponent to much. Life is valuable and if I end up giving it to an opponent then that is working backwards xD. Especially if it is against like Gx monsters, Mono-Green decks. Gruul decks. They would all gain more life then my self.

I have not face many Red Devotion decks in my neck of the woods. With the spells I do have though they all play pretty early. Doom Blade , Hero's Downfall , Boros Reckoner and Brimaz, King of Oreskos do some pretty hard work, early in the game. I do like the idea of Blind Obedience though so I will try it in the meantime to see how I like it.

I do not think I will run either Celestial Flare or Devour Flesh after I update the deck.

Dega is easy my favourite colours to use together. It just offers a lot in the way of answers and threats in this current rotation. At one point this deck almost became just B/W because of how little red I was running and almost got rid of it completely. It offers great spells like Rakdos's Return and Mizzium Mortars . No problem man. That's what it is here for. Also to help get better insight on this deck but also motivate others. Thanks again!

I love this deck. + 1 from me. If you don't mind me asking, how often do you win with it? And by what turn on average?

At the moment with my very very busy work schedule I have not been able to make if to local FNM. I play test against my current decks and do best out of 7. So far it lost 3/4 against Grixis control. It won against Jund Midrange with 4/3. It has so far tied 3/3 with Naya Monsters super friends. It performs well. Opening hands are hit and miss. Always always start with at least 3 lands. The curve is wonky. Curving from Www to 2bb then to either 1wwbb, 3wb or 3rr.

I will be taking this deck to FNM tonight even though it it modern format at my local store. Ishould have some results.

Sorry it took me so long to respond, haven't been on in a while. I agree with the reasons you gave for Fiendslayer Paladin over Brimaz, King of Oreskos . I always like when people have done their research for the deck they have made and have considered all the options. I see neither are in there now, what did you take out? I see two had to be Athreos, God of Passage which I completely agree, he is amazing and I can't wait to use him. Him being out at the same time that Blood Baron of Vizkopa , Obzedat, Ghost Council and Desecration Demon are out is practically not fair. I understand about the Whip of Erebos and Rakdos's Return helping out as win cons and you are a removal deck so you only really need one heavy hitter to get the job done. I agree with not using Warleader's Helix and Alms Beast as well, Warleader's Helix is a great 8 difference life change but is a little slow to simply rely on that as a removal and you probably gain enough life with the whip, or don't need it because your opponents board is clear. Alms Beast is too fragile of an investment, the opponent being able to chump block it and gain life over and over again is too big of a downside to consider. Not to say that he is a bad card though, he just has different uses, my friend used him in a crazy sacrifice deck with Sanguine Bond , Vizkopa Guildmage , and Dying Wish , he would just destroy it or sacrifice it with Cartel Aristocrat and do like 24 damage and gain 24 life, it wasn't that effective but it sure was hilarious. Using Read the Bones instead of Underworld Connections is a good call, underworld is just good in a devotion deck, bones is a stronger card. since you have used some of the journey into nyx cards you should check out Deicide and use it instead of Revoke Existence , the card is awesome, so much flavor, so overpowered, its like a more specific white Slaughter Games . Hell if enchantments start becoming a real problem in the block it might need to be maindecked, but I doubt it. Your welcome on all the comments, the deck is very cool, I am a selesyna man myself. I have some old decks on here but nothing I'm currently running.