Kaalia's War Council! [RTR]-[THS] STD

Casual Viral_Assassin

SCORE: 110 | 144 COMMENTS | 25917 VIEWS | IN 44 FOLDERS


Viral_Assassin says... #1

I am always changing the deck up to see where the deck wants to go. Right now I feel very good at where it is at. Athreos, God of Passage was a bit of a let down in play testing. Just was not really worth it. I ran 3 and was seeing it too often. I ran 2 and saw it too few times. When he would be out they would always have an answer to de-activate him. So I took him out so I would not have to worry about devotion for him even if his ability is pretty stellar. I might run like 2x Deicide Mainboard and leave Revoke Existence Sideboard. I like Revoke Existence a bit better just because it targets both Artifacts and Enchantments but I like the option of getting rid of all the problem gods. Especially Athreos, God of Passage and Keranos, God of Storms .

April 19, 2014 10:22 a.m.

lonewaer says... #2

@narahi : I'll kinda be trying to defend my piece of cake here, but I don't think the lifelink and the chumpblock arguments hold speaking of Alms Beast . Even the fragility, for that matter. You're being unfair, you can't just say those and just move on, here's why I think so :

  • If your opponent chumpblocks Alms Beast , he fears the 6 damage hit, because you are attacking and you are the beater, you have the edge in this case, not the opposite. He fears the beast just like he fears a Desecration Demon when you declare an attack phase. If he kills it, then either his blocker has become bigger than the beast (and you couldn't know, and he would have done that for a demon anyway), either it had deathtouch, in which case you ran into a deathtouch blocker (your choice, and most likely your fault), either his blocker was already bigger, in which case he didn't chumpblock, you chumpattacked. That can work, but it's a bet you're willing to lose.

  • If the lifelink is relevant to you, then I have questions : what do you think of Devour Flesh ? Do you feel the life you give to the opponent with Devour Flesh has such an importance you don't run the card ? To me, both cards have the same purpose, removing enemy creatures and stop aggressive strategies. I won't attack into an activated God, that will indeed hit hard, and stay on the board for the next turn, giving, indeed, a lot of life.

  • It isn't more fragile than Desecration Demon . It takes Dark Betrayal , like Desecration Demon , it doesn't take Doom Blade , like Desecration Demon , and take all other removals, like Desecration Demon . Except that one card that deals devotion to green to a flying creature (who plays that ?).

  • Which brings me to my next point, the flying. Is that so important to you ? To me it isn't. If your opponent is willing to lose a non-flying creature, he feels he is in such a bad shape he has to, in this case you "lose" a turn, but he has to find something else for the next turn, or, he could have sacrificed it for a flying demon anyway. If he takes 6 from a demon because his mana dork is important, then why not take 6 from the beast ? Does his mana dork become less important ? Another thing, if a flyer is attacking you, does the opponent not tap the demon, or, can you not keep a targeted removal in hand for that particular flying fucker ?

I think people are misplaying the card. I use it to not die, and not to attack, that's very different and very important. It provides, turn 4, a nearly absolute wall against weenies (Brave the Elements hurts, and again, it also does against Desecration Demon , no difference), and it is supported by the removal suite. If there isn't any Brave the Elements , a guy can be sacrificed to "remove" the wall (don't forget, I'm talking weenies here). It is more absolute than the demon in a defensive role.

I think it has been said before (or was it on another deck ?_?), that all Dega midrange lists shock themselves very aggressively (and they have to), My take on that, is we can't always allow ourselves to be defenseless on turn 4. We can't play our demon/beast on turn 4 (supposed to be big, a 6/6 in any case), and note that the opponent has lethal on board and we can't do anything about it. With that in mind, the demon can be tapped down, the beast can't. It stabilized me at 4life against a godlike mono blue devotion hand on game three 5 minutes before additional turns (I won on turn +2, still at 4life), while Imanaged to shock myself for 10 life all alone to survive.

Right now, my current list has 4x Desecration Demon , and there is a reason for that, despite this wall of text explaining Alms Beast is more efficient to me. He is supported by 2x maindeck Anger of the Gods , and 5 spot sacrifice cards, in 3x Devour Flesh and 2x Celestial Flare . I sweep with Anger of the Gods , make him sacrifice relevant attackers with Celestial Flare , make him sacrifice the rest with Devour Flesh , and, finally, Desecration Demon is the blackmail part : "I don't care if you can tap him or not, do it or you take 6+. Your choice." This is a shell in which I kind ofwant him to get tapped, and if he doesn't, well, that's fine too.

I'm really sorry for the wall of text, and/or if Iseem pissed (I'm not, just trying to free myself from any liking or disliking for the cards), but I am looking for arguments that would convince me that the card is actually not efficient in a stabilization context. I'm even getting trolled by my friends for that card, and so far it has done better for me than the demon (I think it is because I don't use it aggressively). One has tried changing my old list by removing beast to add demon, and he's done worse than I did the very same day. That's very confusing, because the guy can actually think, play, even argue, but this card is a mystery. Works like a charm in every way for me, and people don't even want to consider it, and I don't know why they won't.

April 19, 2014 11:37 p.m.

alucardx26 says... #3

Interesting I like it. This is my control version of R/B/W http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/rbw-control-journey-into-nyx/

April 20, 2014 9:28 a.m.

alucardx26 says... #4

Also ....why Read the Bones instead of Underworld Connections

April 20, 2014 9:38 a.m.

Viral_Assassin says... #5

At the moment I am running Read the Bones over Underworld Connections for testing. I like Read the Bones better at the moment as it gets me to my answers quicker than Underworld Connections does. With Underworld Connections I also have to tap a land for it every time where as Read the Bones is just a one time purchase of 2B. Underworld Connections is great for devotion for black, and if that is the route you need to go to activate the various Black/X Gods then I would run Underworld Connections over Read the Bones . Life loss on both of them does not bother me. I have more then enough life gain in here to pay for all the Shock lands and the card draw.

April 20, 2014 8:38 p.m.

Viral_Assassin says... #6

@alucardx26 my last comment was in response to your question. and thanks for your input!

April 20, 2014 8:39 p.m.

Flabbergasted says... #7

I would strongly recommend dropping 4x Swamp s for 4x Mana Confluence right away. This is pretty self explanatory as you have stated yourself that life loss is not a problem in previous comments and since this is a 3 color deck making your mana pool perfect is that much more important

On a second note i to enjoy this deck structure and now intend on building it but i was reading lonewaer's argument about running Alms Beast in the deck and strongly agree. (Refer to his reasoning). I suggest dropping 1x Desecration Demon and 1x Whip of Erebos for 2x Alms Beast

Happy Easter and hop(e) i could help and +1 from me

April 20, 2014 10:42 p.m.

Viral_Assassin says... #8

I first would like to thank you for your input! I just might switch those swamps for Mana Confluence . Alms Beast is a good suggestion but it is one I can not take. I just like everything about Desecration Demon more. I love the flying. TBH I also love that he gets tapped down. Those are free kill spells every time he gets tapped down from his ability. If I was to run those Mana Confluence I would need both of the Whip of Erebos to try and compensate. I will try and get a couple Alms Beast so I can test them and will see.

April 21, 2014 7:57 a.m.

lonewaer says... #9

@Viral_Assassin : " I just like everything about Desecration Demon more."

This is enough for me not to insist, who are we to judge that ? =p

It just means we use our 4-drop for very different goals, and that's absolutely fine. If you can secure your life total with a tapped demon on turn 4, the beast has no reason to be anyway, its job would be already done at that point.

As long as people are not saying Desecration Demon is absolutely better in absolutely every way (including stabilization) than Alms Beast , or trolling the choice with no reason (those would be my friends), or neglecting what can be an important drawback, just to refuse to concede anything to the beast, it's fine.

April 21, 2014 2:38 p.m.

@lonewaer I totally agree.

April 21, 2014 8:36 p.m.

wolfsokol says... #11

I really like this deck I think 3 Boros Charm would be really strong for you protecting you from board whipes. Or doing that last bit of damage

April 21, 2014 8:54 p.m.

Thank you @wolfsokol for your suggestion! I will test it when I get the time. I think it would take Ultimate Price place in testing, how does that sound?

April 21, 2014 9:09 p.m.

Flabbergasted says... #13

You should also remove Revoke Existence from your sideboard because the only non- enchantment artifact worth hitting is really just Godsend and with your removal that shouldn't be to much of an issue for you. As Deicide hits all enchantments already at instant speed. I would recommend playing the brand new O-Ring aka Banishing Light .

April 21, 2014 9:37 p.m.

wolfsokol says... #14

I think that would work well

April 21, 2014 9:42 p.m.

Eerryykk1313 says... #15

Not sure what to take out for it, but I have noticed that against every deck you have sideboard description against you side in assemble the legion. Why not just mainboard it?

April 22, 2014 6:10 p.m.

@Eerryykk1313 thanks for your input. I did not even realise this. I have made some changes. Let me know what you think! Thanks again!

@wolfsokol I have play tested Boros Charm in a couple of different matches and it just didn't feel right. I will play test a couple more times but as it is just difficult. It's mana cost is the problem which might seem weird. I am Black/White dominate. The red just never showed up for it. That's why I will play test it some more and see if it is just bad luck or if I would need to adjust my lands.

April 22, 2014 6:47 p.m.

alucardx26 says... #17

Did you ever consider running Warleader's Helix ( 2 in main, 2 in side) and an Elixir of Immortality in the side?

April 23, 2014 9:17 p.m.

I have made some of these changes, let me know what you think! Thanks for the suggestions :[)

April 23, 2014 10:05 p.m.

alucardx26 says... #19


R/B/W Control (Journey into Nyx) Playtest

Standard* alucardx26

SCORE: 1 | 0 COMMENTS | 191 VIEWS

This is mine see what you think of it

April 24, 2014 6:01 a.m.

tooTimid says... #20

Great deck! Love the formatting. It shows you've taken real time into making your deck the best you feel it can be.

Now for my suggestions:

Four Mana Confluence will kill you dead. It's the type of card you want to see one of during a game, never more. You're already hurting your self with Thoughtseize . I burn deck will blow you out. Your lack of shock lands confuses me. Preference? Or money?

My last suggestion is for the sideboard: Against U/W/x you sideboard out Obzedat, Ghost Council . He is your best weapon against them. I would suggest siding out one Boros Reckoner instead.

Cheers! Happy deck building!

May 11, 2014 8:57 a.m.

redben346 says... #21

Aurelia, the Warleader because she can give u tons of attacks. Warleader's Helix and Riot Control because they can give u the life for your Blood Baron of Vizkopa. Same with Fiendslayer Paladin and Archangel of Thune . Arena Athlete because when u heroic it, one of ur opponent's creatures can't block. Hope u liked the suggestions!! :D

May 11, 2014 9:22 a.m.

tooTimid says... #22

TMLP:

The reason Obzedat, Ghost Council is good against control is because all their removal is sorcery speed. If Obzedat is blinked during their turn they have no way to interact with him.

May 11, 2014 10:06 a.m.

@RedSoxFanKy, I have a large amount of Lifegain to try and compensate for the life loss through Shock Lands, Thoughtseize and Read the Bones . It works out fairly well as I see life as an other resource, just as mana is. The faster I can mess with the opponents tempo while establishing mine is fine. Playing with that many is just a gamble I am taking and it's been working out very well for me so far. As for the Shock Lands it is just a preference. The mana works out better having these lands rather then just running all the Shock Lands. My mana is more frequent for the right colours as I need them. I agree and I will fix that sideboard mistake. Thanks for your suggestions!

@redben346, I have thought of the idea of using Aurelia, the Warleader my only concern is just the speed I can get her out at. If I can get their it is worth it, but 6 is a little slow for me, for a permanent. I even cut Elspeth, Sun's Champion because I felt that she made the deck less consistent and with her gone it runs way better. Thanks your your suggestions though!

May 12, 2014 2:54 p.m.

chill4r says... #24

The deck is pretty good, but it's hard to judge, as there are many good options in the whole Standart-Pool, and it often is decided by matchups and other factors.Althrough, this seems like a sustained built, without any obvious lacks.

The only suggestion I can make:is cutting few Mana Confluence in favor of Sacred Foundry , as it consumes a lot of hitpoints, and often brings one behind, so drawing too many of them, is never good (unless you have intense life-gain from Nyx-Fleece Ram and/or Courser of Kruphix from the 1st turns on).The Sacred Foundry will allow you to cut few Mizzium Mortars for the more efficient Chained to the Rocks (I would still keep some Mortars, as they answer important threats, that Chained to the Rocks cannot handle).

The one card, I am not sure about in your deck is Desecration Demon . He usually puts the opponent under hard preassure, but I had the impression, that he just does not do, what your deck is basicly trying to do: Play "hard to deal with" threats.I would cut him in favor of other, in my opinion, more important cards.I think having the 4th Banishing Light , Stormbreath Dragon and/or Blood Baron of Vizkopa is more relevant, than playing a strong turn 4-threat, that is easy to remove.Also Brimaz, King of Oreskos would probably find space.

One card I would definelty try to find room for, is Whip of Erebos , obviously for the Obzedat-Synergy, but also, as it usually has much value.

Just some small suggestions, explained in a giant block of text .

While the Mainboard looks great, I feel like you Sidebaord is a bit missconstructed. If you are interested in discussing the issues (that I see) let me know, I just don't want to write anything down (in case you are not even interested).

Hope my hints were helpful

GL & HF.

May 14, 2014 2:37 p.m.

Flabbergasted says... #25

What's the point of running both Revoke Existence and Deicide there is hardly anything to hit with Revoke Existence right now that Deicide cant itself and at instant speed. I suggest dropping the slow one all together for something like Pithing Needle or Ratchet Bomb

May 14, 2014 10:36 p.m.

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