Frankly Winter orb > Thorn amethyst and Tangle wire is an absolute house in any deck with dorks and non tap oriented utility. A turn 3 wire shuts out most of your opponents mana and so long as you have put permanents into play turn 1 and 2 you can rest easy knowing you'll go fairly uninhibited.

I actually agree on Winter Orb as it doesn't affect Moxes or dorks, but Tangle Wire might hinder your own plays as well. Assuming you drop it with 2 lands and 2 dorks/moxen, you're effectively working with just 2 mana on your next turn. While that's enough to function off of, is that a risk worth playing? I mean, the whole point of Thalia, Guardian of Thraben and Thorn of Amethyst is to stop opposing players from controlling and locking your own resources. It seems rather counter-intuitive to Tangle Wire.

Now that the partial paris is gone, does that change much of anything with play?

Magnivore the deck can't run 32 lands, at least 36 is necessary without the partial paris .

Removal of Gaea's Cradle was mentioned but it's still on the list D:

Hey cobblepott,

I have a very similar deck heavily inspired by yours, thanks for posting it!

What are your thoughts on these 2 cards:

Tainted Pact - Instant speed, gets around Aven Mindcensor and Stranglehold and shouldn't exile too much since the deck has redundant combo pieces. I'm trying out one of each snow-covered basic to remove duplicate card names. This would be to replace Shred Memory.

Blasting Station - An instant speed sac outlet and wincon all in one, similar to Altar of Dementia except opponents lose instantly instead of on their draw steps. In my testing with it I almost always sac Academy Rector to float a point of damage at a mana dork on the field, put Pattern of Rebirth onto the dork, point of damage resolves, gg.

I love , love , love the decklist bro and It has been extremely successful in my meta. Just a few questions. Some of the changes described are not teflected in the deck list, why? Also why remove Saffi? And lastly I would like to use this deck in my local duel league however alot of these cards are banned in the format. What changes would you recomend to make it duel legal? Thanks for the hardwork you are the man!!!

Bolsheviktory:

Tainted Pact - This (and Demonic Consultation) is great for situations where you want to exile your entire yard (for Labman or similar), but I really don't like it as a tutor replacement. Even though we've got a bunch of redundancy, the variance on what gets exiled is too high for my comfort. If you ditch most of your deck to get a combo piece and then have it countered, you're in a pretty rough place. Shred Memory is mainly in on account of it being very hard to counter.

Blasting Station - Was in the list a long time ago, but really three sac outlets is enough. This one was dropped because it had the highest cmc. Sure it's a sac outlet and wincon, but with the density of creatures and creature tutors in the list, it normally isn't hard to assemble what you need.

Isellcarsmfer:

The description is pretty old. Once the deck is more stable (it's in post-Vancouver flux still), I'll update the description and MTGS to reflect the latest and greatest.

Saffi - I needed space and realized that Saffi almost never got cast (since the other pieces have always been enough). I haven't missed her at all.

I wouldn't recommend Karador for French. My list was originally a French deck, but with the bannings of Loyal Retainers, Natural Order, and others, Karador became nonviable and I shifted to Multiplayer.

That makes sense, thanks for the explanation!

Since you're running living plane, have you thought about messing around with Night of Souls Betrayal?

EDHeretic94:

I'd prefer not to do Night of Souls Betrayal, mainly on account of it being symmetric. The thing about Elesh Norn and Linvala is that they only impact opponent creatures and thus, only opponent lands are neutralized when Living Plane is out. Running Night of Souls Betrayal would kill all of our lands too, which is much less favorable for us. Also, assembling two enchantments is significantly more work than assembling an enchantment and a creature, given the number of creature tutors we have available.

That makes total sense with linvala and I remembered Elish Norn right after I posted, I run it a flash rector/ humility lockdown deck that uses it, but it makes sense as to why its not an optimal choice here.

Another question, how does this deck approach stax Brago and Bant Stax are making up a lot of my meta is seedborn muse something to consider? What would you recommend?

What is the purpose of Living Plane?

EDHeretic94:

Stax is a reasonably positive matchup. Given the density of mana dorks, we are resilient enough against lockdown that we run Winter Orb and Hokori ourselves. Most Thalia effects only cripple noncreature spells (which is how we get away with running her here). Cryptolith Rite gives nice insurance against MLD in addition to turning all the hatebears into Birds of Paradise.

We've also got plenty of hate to send their way. Both Brago and Derevi are horrified to see Elesh Norn, Aven Mindcensor, Containment Priest, or Peacekeeper hit the board. Brago has further trouble with Kataki, while Derevi has issues with Linvala.

Play your game proactively, applying whatever tools you need to disrupt your opponents' lines of play. You can metagame as well. If you've got tons of stax lists in your meta, things like Aura Shards or Bane of Progress improve significantly.

Frank_Glascock:

Living Plane pairs with Elesh Norn or Linvala to create an asymmetric land lock. This was added as an alternative line to Boonweaver (to catch opponents by surprise) and something that is easy to assemble because only two cards are required and both of the lockout pieces are legends.

I know colorless mana often has little use in the early game, but I still feel Sol Ring is well worth its position in the deck. What's your reasoning on cutting it?

Thanks! That helps a ton!

How is Mentor of the Meek performing? If you were to remove this, would Phyrexian Arena be its replacement? Has Stony Silence ever been in the deck? I have one, know it was listed on Keattz's list, and have a competitive Brago deck in my meta. Keattz also plays Saffi Eriksdotter over Fiend Hunter for the two as opposed to three mana cost.

Just wanted to give props.. This deck is incredible!

NarejED:

Per Sol Ring, this is very similar to the Animar situation, but not quite as pronounced. What we really need is colored mana. Sol Ring was cut to get Carpet of Flowers into the list. In competitive play, Carpet of Flowers is actually superior to Sol Ring much of the time in my opinion. It gives colored mana of your choice, it scales as the game progresses, it's immune to lockdown, it isn't shut off by Null Rod/Stony Silence, it's an enchantment which is somewhat harder to remove than an artifact, the list goes on.

That said, arguments can certainly be made for running both. But really mana isn't really where the list is wanting so much as card draw. I'd be open to discussion on it for sure.

Frank_Glascock:

Mentor of the Meek - I've been really happy with Mentor. Given the density of dorks and hate bears in the list, it winds up generating more advantage than engines that only draw a single card per turn. If we get into situations where we've got plenty of resources, but no tutors for a wincon, it's great just to chain through a bunch of creatures, making our boardstate better and digging as we go. I have been using Dark Tutelage instead of Phyrexian Altar due to the inclusion of Spirit of the Labyrinth. If Mentor where to go, Tutelage would come in.

Stony Silence - Stony has never been in the list. A case can be made for its inclusion, especially if your meta demands it. However, I prefer creature oriented solutions before enchantment oriented ones. If I see a Brago player, I'll be prioritizing things like Containment Priest, Kataki, and Teeg.

Saffi vs Fiend Hunter - Fiend Hunter is in for the removal. It's been relevant in my experience since, the targets are usual commanders and most people choose to replace the exile with movement to the command zone.

irisfibers:

Thanks for the encouragement! :)

Cobblepott, I appreciate the time and expertise you lend to this venture. Do you want us to use this forum or the MTGSalvation thread? I posted my last question here on April 26 but have since been using (and posting questions) on the other site. GMA and Keattz have been valuable resources over there.

Frank_Glascock:

I feel like both sites are fine. MTGS has more eyes, so feel free to post there for more diversity of response. Note that I can't access tappedout nor MTGS while at work, so my turnaround for answering questions sometimes has some lag involved.

Cobbelpott, would it be possible to get your rational behind the new changes? I understand the inclusion of Sensei's Divining Top and Dark Tutelage for card filtering/draw. I assume Phyrexian Arena would be in tbe deck if not for the double black mana cost. I was slightly surprised by the removal of Iona, Shield of Emeria. I was very surprised by Aura Shards being that Stony Silence was excluded for not being a creature.

Was Stony Silence's neutralizing of Altar of Dementia the tipping point for Aura Shards? If so, I feel less than intelligent.

Awesome deck sir +1. Your primer was a great help with my Karador build. Curious how Mentor of the Meek has been working for you? it seems really good with the amount of dorks and low cmc creatures.