Curiosity is way better than Last Thoughts

smackjackI see your point except for 1-2 things:

Curiosity ends standard legal soon so I'm trying to prep for that, and Last Thoughts can't be destroyed with remove enchant spells, they have to kill my hexproof stalker which is substantially harder... and why I have Negate in my deck

I know that Invisible Stalker is rotating out. If anyone has suggestions for replacements please let me know.

Cipher mill never works as it involves using two completely different strategies to win instead and splitting its resources between them instead of using a dedicated strategy to win like a good deck would. Because of this, the Mirko Vosks and Invisible Stalkers are useless and should be cut so that you're running a 60 card deck. As for what you replace the cipher spells with, I don't really care.

Though whatever you do, take out Death's Approach. It's bad and was always bad no matter what deck it was put it. In fact, it's such a bad card that people in limited didn't even want to use it.

Lord007, I understand the desire to get a headstart on getting rid of the phasing out cards. What if the new set has a card that is close to Curiosity in it though? You will be gimping yourself until then. I know... what if the new set does not have a card close to it?

vyledust I get where you're coming from. Another reason I have Last Thoughts and not Curiosity is that if I have Consuming Aberration on the field each time I cast a copy of Last Thoughts the aberration's ability triggers again, same for why I have Hands of Binding as opposed to a removal spell like Doom Blade

Lazav, Dimir Mastermind could perhaps serve your purposes for replacing an Invisible Stalker . As for making him unblockable, you're pretty much out of luck.

TheOne4221 Unblockable is more important then hexproof. Invisible Stalker is the base for my ciphers and thus needs to be unblockable. He also needs to be cheap (he's a 2-drop) so I can start my strategy on turn 2. So far my only option for replacement is Phantom Warrior as it was reprinted in M14

I'm considering taking out Mirko Vosk, Mind Drinker to cut down my deck size. It seems that anytime I get him for him to actually help I have to already control the game... Any thoughts?

Hey guys, I made a Dimir mill/cipher a while back let me tell you, it KICKS BUTT! So here are my suggestions. First, cut the Dimir Keyrune s, they seem good for your ciphers but Trepanation Blade is much much better. They're both artifacts so they both have the same weaknesses but trep mills and does damage. Next, Last Thoughts , overpriced doesn't pay off well and just a bad card; drop it. Instead put in Psychic Strike s, they counter all spells and mill for cheap. Death's Approach is good but Doom Blade is better, and m14 puts back in standard. So I would suggest take out all your Last Thoughts , one Death's Approach , and one Dimir Charm . Then put in 3 Doom Blade s and 2 Psychic Strike s.Sorry but I have no substitutes for Invisible Stalker , so I changed it to a pure mill deck for m14 standard. Check out the original Mill Strike and the modified Mark of the Milllwright. Hope this helps, and feel free to comment on my decks. anvildust

Hey guys, I made a Dimir mill/cipher a while back let me tell you, it KICKS BUTT!

Let me tell YOU that is a complete and utter lie because, as I have told the OP, Mill and Cipher do not go together and just because they are part of the same guild is not a valid reason to TRY to make them work together.

they seem good for your ciphers but Trepanation Blade is much much better.

As a mill deck, damage is not what you want to try and incur.

after consideration my updated drop/add list is

Drop:

Mirko Vosk, Mind Drinker x2

Dimir Keyrune x3

Add:

1 Island (I've been having some mana problems)

3-4 Staff of the Mind Magus for continual survival (every cipher cast is also gain one life now)

now I just need to get 3-4 staffs

But you still need your new cipher monkeys.

None of the staves are good. Hell, it's even questionable whether or not they're even good in limited like they were designed to be. Whatever you do, do NOT run it.

i think for abberrations and guild mages is too much, a for of card is something you will ALWAYS have use for when you draw it, so i'd say reduce to 3, Wight of Precinct Six is another nice card to have in this sort of deck, as is Dying Wish , as is a large deterrent for killing the abberation, i also think you could reduce the number of last thoughts by 1 as it is expensive, and you have too many cipher spells imo

Consider Fireshrieker as double strike triggers cipher twice, thus doubling all your cipher spells of you invisible stalker

Ok guys I need some help figuring out what to drop

Current add/drop list (just waiting for the cards):

Drop:

Mirko Vosk, Mind Drinker x2

Dimir Keyrune x3

LOOKING FOR MORE CARDS TO DROP

Add:

Staff of the Mind Magus x3

Fireshrieker x3

After adding in these cards I'll play with them for a while before I decided if I need to add more mana

Great Deck very similar to mine indeed. One thing that I would suggest, is to use Curiosity instead of Last Thoughts . It won't trigger Consuming Aberration 's ability but its 3 less mana for the same idea. Just what I would use.

JMAnderson thank you for the suggestion, and after what a number of people have been saying that might make sense. The only problem is that now with adding Staff of the Mind Magus more ciphers is a lot better. I use Last Thoughts mostly as a an extra trigger for Consuming Aberration and now Staff of the Mind Magus

Your next comment (if you were me) would be: "Then just take it out... You've been wanting to cut cards why not this one?"

The answer would be something like: Because drawing an extra card a turn is amazing!! and then you add Fireshrieker and suddenly I'm drawing 3 cards a turn for the combined cmc (one time) of 11 (2 for Invisible Stalker 3 to play and 2 to equip Fireshrieker and 4 for Last Thoughts ) with the added bonus of triggering both Consuming Aberration 's ability and Staff of the Mind Magus ... Just seems to make sense to me.

Hopefully this all makes sense but feel free to call me out if any of it doesn't. I really am trying to get this deck better and appreciate all the suggestions so far.

I don't quite understand why your not running Hidden Strings though, as you can use it to untap then land you used to play it and play Hands of Binding , then attack and still have two managed for your Negate , also can be used to tap opponents creatures to swing with big things or tap their land to stop them countering your spells

Pyroshade You are completely right. In a fit of anger after realizing how stupid I've been I took them out. I will amend my deck and put them back in.

In other news I have decided to get 3 Tablet of the Guilds as opposed to 3 Staff of the Mind Magus

It's cool to see another player making a cipher/mill deck.

+1 from me

If you want some ideas, look at mine. I've been working on it for a few months already. And I have been to two FNM with it.

U-mill-iating - Cipher version

Tormented Soul could be another cipher monkey fpr you, esp, after the mighty mighty Invisible Stalker will be cycled out.even hes a little slow but also worth a consideration for your purposes might be Deathcult Rogue

or you could add Artful Dodge toget arround the unblockabel thing. since it has flashback you can use it twice which helps your Consuming Aberration to trigger its ability and hey,by the time you have a threat like an unblockable 26/26 consuming aberation on the field, the game is most likely to favour you ;). Artful Dodge together with mirco vosk and your Duskmantle Guildmage is also a nice combo. think of all the lifes your opponent might loose for 3 mana.

im also not sure about Last Thoughts its just too expensive. mybe drop those fpr Curiosity , even tho your Aberation doesent benefit that much from it but it just gets your game developing faster.another good card for that is Thought Scour doesent look too strong,but its very cheap but gives you that one extra card, that might change the game, especially in the early game.

Dazard I'm pretty sure Tormented Soul cycles out at the same time (correct me if I'm wrong) as Invisible Stalker . As for Deathcult Rogue it's a definite possibility except I was thinking of using Phantom Warrior instead. Artful Dodge and Curiosity and Thought Scour are all good cards I'm just not sure what I would take out for them. I think I'm going to avoid Curiosity and stay with Last Thoughts for now. Thank you for your input!! I really appreciate it.