xiao.wen, out of all the people on tappedout I probably know the most about b/w tokens. All of what you have said is correct, and i have said all of that in the past. Thank you for bringing it back up. And Raven's Crime isn't good enough to warrant a spot here.

xzzane

Any reasoning behind why it's bad? I included it in to help combat control decks like UWR. I don't need more than a few mana for that matchup anyway, and the added recurrable card advantage is actually just insane for a one of, at least in my testing so far (only 3 games, but I played it twice and it was good twice)

I would say Duress is better as it targets.

The fact that you don't choose the target makes it so that it isn't any good. Its the same reason why Browbeat isn't that good. Thoughtseize >Inquisition of Kozilek >Duress .

bluemage, to elaborate what xzzane is saying about raven's crime, giving your opponents choice allows them to throw away an extra land or a card not suited for your matchup.

instead of gaining card advantage, you lose it.

always be wary of cards that let your opponents choose how the card affects them, usually giving them the ability to pick the least painful outcome totally mitigates the theoretical power of the card.

I feel like you want some Disenchant s instead of the excessive amounts of Relic of Progenitus . They hit SO much... Bogle, Affinity, the mirror, Twin, Merfolk, Pod... it's very versatile. You already have the Rest in Peace .

I would also like to see a Grafdigger's Cage squeezed into the sideboard somewhere.

I would cut the Windbrisk Heights for more basics... Blood Moon is a serious problem for you. (Which is another thing Disenchant deals with)

It's also possible you would want to cut the miser's Honor of the Pure for more disruption or more removal. Maybe cut 2 Zealous Persecution s and the 1 Honor for 1 Doom Blade and 2 Go for the Throat .

Finally, Midnight Haunting instead of your Raise the Alarm s? I just feel like it's a better card overall.Flyers>Ground men

Armenius, I don't think you understand how good Windbrisk Heights is. No way should he cut them for basics. Once he can afford fetches, Blood Moon is no longer a real concern. Usually token decks are fine with just 4 Path to Exile , although they do occasionally use more. He shouldn't cut any anthem type effects, Zealous Persecution is amazing and he's good at 5 anthems. Also Raise the Alarm works better into the curve.

re: Disenchant with such a heavy white mana base here, is not Sundering Growth more desirable for the free token? i understand obviously the tradeoff is that its a bit bulkier to cast here, but given this 60/40 mana base, is it not worth the risk?

If the deck can support it, yes, it would be better.

I actually had the thought to cut 2 Relics for Sundering Growth last night, and have already made that change.

As for the other suggestions, I think that cutting anthems for bad removal just makes the deck worse. In most cases, I'd rather race than try to remove, because I win just about every race unless i'm facing down like 2 Wurmcoil Engine .

Also, trying out a 1 of Oblivion Ring instead of the Raven's Crime . Mostly just testing it out as another removal element.

There are better spots than Oblivion Ring . Sword of Fire and Ice is a great one of for instance. Or even a budget friendly one of Gather the Townsfolk .

xzzane

Weren't you saying to cut GtF?

It is only good as a one of, no more.

Bring Batwing Brume into sideboard, it shuts down Splinter twin and Kiki Jiki Combos and is for the most part unexpected. Otherwise i think deck looks great. +1 from me

xzzane

How do you handle the hatebear matchup?

I just ran across this in testing, and it was fairly difficult. Any tips there?

The hatebear matchup is rather interesting. Depending on how the game goes it can favor either deck. Thalia, Guardian of Thraben is, of course, a major threat to us early on. But we have things like Zealous Persecution which can act as one sided board wipes. If you have a vault out then their creature advantage of Loxodon Smiter quickly vanishes. Ideally you want to start out with some hand disruption just in case they have that early thalia in their hands. If you want, you can read a duel between Wescoe and Kibler here: http://archive.wizards.com/Magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/wc13/fm10. Any specific questions about the matchup?

Nah, was just looking for an overview.

I'm pretty much treating it the same, trying to race when necessary and using disruption when I can. Thalia was really the only thing giving me grief until I remembered that she died to a ZP.

Yeah, Zealous Persecution is amazing. It's great against ramping decks too. One of my favorite cards in the entire list.

SwoBM is probaly the worst of the swords unless it's the protection for color that matters

atgarnett

It's in here right now because I don't have the cash to buy Fire/ice, and because it offers the most blanketed protections for me. I'd rather have half protection from everything than have full protection from half of things, if that makes sense. I'll be replacing it when I can though.

Okay

xzzane

Hey, so for States this weekend, I'm expecting a lot of tron, based on what i've seen so far. How do you feel about going down to 2 Windbrisk Heights in favor of Tectonic Edge ? I feel like WBH is just kind of bad in my meta, which has evolved to mostly affinity, jund, tron of all types, and summerbloom, and that Tech Edge is just better main to help eliminate resources. Thoughts?

For deing with Tron you would want Ghost Quarter I imagine. By the time they get4 lands it could be too late. Keep in mind, windbrisk allows you to pull for things like anthems or Zealous Persecution . And zp wrecks affinity. Having 2 Tectonic Edge /Ghost Quarter could be a viable solution though. I have 2 Ghost Quarter in my sideboard for those occasions. Just make sure your Mana base can support it.

I pick Tectonic Edge over Ghost Quarter because of the benefits in other matchups as well. Cutting jund off of green is a thing, and I'd rather not give the summerbloom decks any mana. While Windbrisk is good in most MUs, I've found it to be a huge pain in multiples. Having two allows me to maintain the surprise ZP, and doesn't just make me fold to RDW / Affinity.

Anyway, it's definitely something to test, and I will be all this week. With the 6 fetches, the mana is perfectly capable of supporting 2-3 more utility lands that don't tap for mana.

You should be winning the vast majority of your matchups against affinity. Is this not the case for you? And fair enough. Let me know how it works out for you.