Nevermind, figured it out

what do you think about eldest reborn in this deck?

Why the playset of creeping chill on the side?

I would rather Play demon of catastrophies of the other demon becasue its easier to cast and its sacrafices a creature which eneables graveyard. It is also a 6 6 flyer

literaturecult46, thanks for the suggestion, I overlooked Price of Fame, but Surveil 2 might be really useful. I'm not sure what the meta will look like, and whether legendary creatures will be prevalent enough to run it. So it's a maybe for now.

mmaestri, also thanks for the suggestion. The Eldest Reborn is a little too slow for my taste. It's a good card for a control build, but for this deck I'd rather run Bone Dragon or Doom Whisperer in the 5-mana slot. Also I'm trying to keep the deck's mana curve as low as possible.

joaoguaxinim, the Creeping Chill on the side are there because, in theory, the self-milling in this deck will let me drain life with the Chills for free, even if my graveyard gets wiped. I would bring them in against aggro or burn, or maybe even control, but I'm not completely sold on them yet. I'd like to know your thoughts.

Apex_killjoy02, that's a good point about Demon of Catastrophes. It is cheap and helps sac Stitcher's Supplier, but my preference is Doom Whisperer for its repeatable Surveil ability. I'm already running light on zombies with all the skeletons and Whisperers. I would run one demon or the other. I guess it boils down to personal preference.

zAzen7977 Whoa you really straightened this deck up! No more Dead Weight, that's for sure! Nothing in the mainboard I can really talk smack about (I'd say the curve, but being liliana combo, the excess 1-drops makes sense). The sideboard, however, looks a bit wonky. Never Happened, for example, doesn't do enough for it's mana cost. An extra 2 copies of Reassembling Skeleton in the sideboard will come in handy when you're up against decks that don't want to ram all their creatures into a constant deathtouch* chump blocker, such as stompy decks (though Vine Mare crushes monoblack, so I can see NOT investing into that match-up to allow room in your sideboard to beef up against other decks as a viable strategy). Divest is your best option in dealing with the May're I'd say from experience, though a copy of Detection Tower and Mausoleum Secrets is an option, which also allows for stretching out your mana-base for say, more Doom Whisperers. SPEAKING OF DOOM WHISPERER! That Creeping Chill combo, in my option, just doesn't work here...

Let me throw some MATH at you: so you milled your library in half, and only drew/milled into 1 copy of Creeping Chill at that point. You're in a tight match you really want to top deck a bomb and DAMNIT it's Barrier of Bones. It's all good though, surveil time baby, and you know you're about as likely as ever to mill a Creeping Chill. How likely you ask? MATH: 3 copies of Creeping Chill/30 cards in library= .1 10%. Does that sound like the kind of odds you want to get behind for value? I certainly don't.

Now, Creeping Chill, Narcomoeba, Doom Whisperer, Enhanced Surveillance, Dimir Spybug, Nightveil Sprite is a package MAYBE worth getting behind, but honestly I haven't seen it reeaally pop off yet (and a lot of folks are trying it on cockatrice, including me haha).

In closing,

Sideboard suggestion:

-4 Creeping Chill -2 Never Happened

+2 Reassembling Skeleton +2 Demon of Catastrophes +1 Doom Whisperer +1 Cast Down

OR PERHAPS

+2 Karn, Scion of Urza +2 Cast Down +2 Divest

Also Toorgar

fettywapmtg +10, thank you!!! Fantastic advice, I'll change the sideboard accordingly.

fettywapmtg and Apex_killjoy02, I dropped the 4 Creeping Chill, 2 Never Happened, and 1 Desecrated Tomb, then added 2 Demon of Catastrophes, 2 Cast Down, 2 Divest and 1 Detection Tower. The additional demons, disruption, and removal on the side will allow me to make the deck more control-heavy when necessary, I like it.

I see the danger with Vine Mare. Is it worth running/sideboarding the Detection Tower? I sideboarded it for now, since I don't want to bring it to throw off Cabal Stronghold, unless I know for sure that I'm going up against hexproof creatures.

Varaskas Contempt?

mmaestri, thanks for the suggestion. I'm conflicted between Vraska's Contempt for the lifegain/planeswalker exile and Settle the Score for the loyalty counters for Liliana, Untouched By Death. I'm leaning towards Contempt now that Nicol Bolas, the Ravager  ^Flip and other planeswalkers will probably be more prevalent. What are your thoughts?

zAzen7977 looking good, though I will say a copy of Mausoleum Secrets goes a long was for enabling Detection Tower (or whatever other card; it's essentially an instant speed Demonic Tutor at 1-copy in here). mmaestri isn't wrong about Vraska's Contempt, though. Settle the Score works here too, but doesn't take care of planeswalkers. Being that Necrotic Wound already exiles creatures, contempt does add a bit more coverage. Settle the Score is still a solid card though, and worth running 1-of as well as 2 Vraska's Contempts.

I finally put together a Dimir deck that's been performing well against a lot of decks, and I skipped out on Vraska's Contempt as well. I just uploaded it her real quick, if you want to check it out:

Hit Combo

Standard* fettywapmtg

1 VIEW

fettywapmtg, thanks for sharing, I like it! I see how Creeping Chill could be really effective in your build. How has it worked out so far?

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but Mausoleum Secrets tutors a black card only, so it will not help me search for Detection Tower. But it could still be very useful in this build.

zAzen7977 you are correct that Mausoleum Secrets only tutors for a black mana card, but that card is literally for any card in your deck that requires black mana that is equal to the number of creature cards in your graveyard or less, which means you could tutor for Liliana, Untouched By Death or any other card that could prove useful in any other senario

Damn I'm foolish, you're totally right haha the tutor land technique doesn't work. I gotta read more; I had a dude tutor for a land with it against me and I just went with it...

The Dimir build has worked really well actually! It's been punking a lot of Boros and Golgari builds, which are looking really strong so far, and it's interactions are interesting and a it's overall a fun deck to play. I've won games by casting a Doom Whisperer and pumping up 1 or more Dimir Spybugs, Hit counter win condition, Thief of Sanity insane card advantage, and even surveilling 2 Creeping Chills and swingin' out with good old Dr. Doom. I'm working on "Narco winds" right now, which I'll post it when I get the balance right. It's looking pretty good in game so far, but I'm still tinkering with deck list quite a bit.

Hey, was just looking at the list and was wondering what you though of Gruesome Menagerie? Seeing as it could bring back a Stitcher's Supplier for more self mill, a Graveyard Marshal for exiling the milled creature cards and even your Death Baron.

I dont like the idea of vraskas contempts in this deck just because we are an aggressive deck and 4 mana on turn four or five is alot for us...otherwise the comments have looked good and im hoping somehow someway we can make this an actual tournament ready deck.

I'm really liking this deck! You mentioned splashing green, have considered including the cards you mentioned and something like Vigorspore Wurm with Rise from the Grave? Rise from the Grave is pricey but can make a milled Vigorspore Wurm a zombie plus it's undergrowth mechanic. Thoughts? Looking forward to seeing where this deck goes!

Hi, I'm not new to MTG, but new to Standard. I have to say, this deck looks amazing. First, I love how you made it pretty rotation proof. I want to play test it a bit before I dump my paycheck on this deck, but it seems really solid. I might just scrap my idea of Surveil + Reanimator just to play this deck.

zAzen7977 Hey man, how are you?

I've been looking for the cards to update the deck, so far so good, I believe that Doom Whisperer will be an amazing addition to make it really competitive.

I have a question, wouldn`t the Millstone be useful on this build?

Thanks for your dedication and kindness!

I have a fairly similar deck I like to use that takes advantage of the cards in my grave yard but doesnt necessarily play them. I'm working on a few adjustments to get the right combination of grave yard interaction but I've mostly omitted exile stuff for one big reason.

Lotleth Giant

I know it's an expensive cast but if your aggro starts to fizzle out as the game progresses it's so satisfying to just dump a ton of creatures into your grave yard then play the giant for like 8 or 9 damage to win the game.

Just a sideboard consideration

I've been dwelling on my previous comment. Forget the Wurm, Rise from the Grave can be used to great effect when returning Doom Whisperer (makes it a zombie) or Lotleth Giant (includes Lotleth Giant in the undergrowth count) from the graveyard. Also, I'm really into splashing green to include Assassin's Trophy, and Rhizome Lurcher. With Whisper, Blood Liturgist, Rhizome Lurcher can also be used to great effect. Activate Whisper, Blood Liturgist, sacrifice it and another creature, then return Rhizome Lurcher from the graveyard. Rhizome Lurcher will enter with +3/+3, plus +1/+1 for each other thing in the graveyard, then can be buffed by Death Baron. I think it can be more effective than Bone Dragon for the reasons stated above! Just my idea, would love to hear your thoughts.

Made so much gold in arena with this: Thanks for an awesome deck!

I copied your build and put 4 creeping chills in it. Works so well with this deck. Then i added 3 tattered mummies to replace barrier of bones.

Hey, I'm playing your deck at the moment, and I've some questions about it.

First, how do you manage a teferi deck with this one ? If I don't have a really good hand at the start I fell like playing for nothing cause I won't be able to overcome a the control of the deck :/

Secondly, Do you think that Josu Vess, Lich Knight is a good idea ? Because even if you're able to kick him, you'll get a great board for 10 mana, but think about it : for 10 mana with Liliana, Untouched By Death you're able to summon 4 Diregraf Ghoul, 3 Stitcher's Supplier and 1 Death Baron which is a better deal if you just want to get a full board. Even beter, if you that much mana and a Lotleth Giant, you can summon it deal dmg (10 mana means turn 10 minimum so you should have at least 6 beast on the graves with this deck) which deals a lot of dmg and then summon it again from the graves with Liliana, Untouched By Death. If you have the cards, you can do a 2 turn one shot : Liliana on board, Lotleth Giant on hands => summon Lotleth Giant to deal dmg, Next turn kill the giant with Necrotic Wound or Severed Strands and re-summon it with Liliana. So for cheaper cost, you get more... I'm not playing Josu for these reasons even I would love to play him just for the lore :/

Now, I've a last problem : the lack of planeswalker management. Well, I'm playing on arena that means that most of the games will be set without touching at the side deck so when the oppenent is playing with a planeswalker as main card (teferi...) I don't have anything to get rid of it effectivly, No Vraska's Contempt, no targeted dmg, no flying beast, no unblockable beast, no remover... Is there any solution or am I just to bad ?

I'm not a pro in magic, I'm more of a beginner but thos points are pretty weak in my point of view.

Thx to reading this comment, and sorry if I've made mistakes in mu, It's not my primary language

I've only been playing Magic for like a week but what about Isareth the Awakener to cast creatures from your graveyard, plus she's legendary and has deathtouch and only costs 3 mana. And Revival//Revenge, you won't be able to use the 2nd ability unless u splash white but Revival allows u to cast 3 mana cards from your graveyard for 2 mana straight onto the battlefied. So if u draw a revival and u have a baron in your graveyard u can put it on the battlefield for 2 mana only. Pretty cool but idk im just new