I've been thinking of building around Lili as well (but closer to Origin's release), so you have given me a few ideas. Might I suggest Nim Deathmantle to go alongside the Altars?

And a note on Imperial Seal: I see you are running Liliana Vess, but not Vampiric Tutor (which I recommend, by the way). I'd argue that there are others more superior than the Seal. Vampiric is better than it because it's instant speed. Seal is Sorcery speed, which can be an issue (There's another like it, Cruel Tutor, but it's the worst of the bunch for obvious reasons).

I would say that if you have Vampiric and Vess, why need the Seal in the first place (other than pimping the deck out)? This is just my take on the matter. Bottom line is that I'd consider Vampiric Tutor before going for Imperial Seal.

I intend to pick up a Vamp tutor. Any suggestions on what to cut?

I would say any of the following:

Triskelion (except I know he's there because of Mikaeus, and you have ways to reanimate him. I just don't like him because he's not good on his own).

Mox Opal or Chrome Mox (I feel like you have more than enough ways to ramp).

Sadly, that's all I can recommend. The deck looks solid enough to me. Those three were the only ones that stood out to me.

I'll keep it mind.

Have you ever considered running Reanimate, Animate Dead or Profane Command as your reanimation spells? The first two allow you to reanimate from any graveyard and the last one adds in some nice flexibility with its other modes.

I would seriously consider running only one of the Altars, if you need it to combo off your most likely going to just search for it. If you happen to have one in hand or on the field the other is just redundant and a dead card in hand. Which one you take out is completely up to you colorless mana over colored mana.

also I am not a fan of Necromantic Selection if your going to pay 8 mana for a board wipe you get soo much more value out of Decree of Pain cards draw over creatures any day. Also Black Sun's Zenith is pretty good for a board wipe too. Also Crux of Fate isn't terrible for a black board wipe either.

Black is known for its ability to tutor any card up from the deck using tutors. I see your running very few tutors which I would consider adding in at least 2 or 3 more: Diabolic Tutor, Beseech the Queen, and Vampiric Tutor if able. These will make your deck more consistent and less reliant on getting the right cards at the right time by drawing them.

Here are some of the cards i think to be weak in the deck and you can replace with other cards: Witchbane Orb, your play group will just kill this easily and basically adds no benefits to you, Mox Opal and Chrome Mox you already have enough mana acceleration add in Mana Vault to compensate. Steel Hellkite I feel is used to kill tokens, maybe switch into a Massacre Wurm? Unstable Obelisk for Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre, for one more mana you get a beat stick with annihilator 4, I'm going off playing and using it on the same turn.

Other cards you might consider adding are: Erebos, God of the Dead, Bloodgift Demon and a Vesuva to have another Cabal Coffers. Let me know what you think of these suggestions! Cheers!

jaeger_Konig I'll be back in 4 hours to comment.

The Chain Veil perhaps? Gotta get that value.

jaeger_Konig:Let me start with, thank you for the on depth look at my deck and suggestions.

Reanimate is lackluster. The life loss isn't worth the reduced cost, plus it's a one time use.

Animate Dead also suffers from the one time use issue, but it is more useful than reanimate.

Profane Command just ends up costing too much mana. The other modes are 'alright' but not worth cutting something for.

Doubling up on alters increases the likelyhood of me drawing one. They're both powerful, but if I can't draw one, flipping Lili can be hard.

I like Necromantic Selection because not only do I get to have a blocker, but I can reuse etb abilities. However its mana cost is stead. I may remove it.

I do indeed like Decree of Pain. I've considered it for a month or so, but I think it'll come down to play testing.

I'm just not a fan of Black Sun's Zenith, which is like blasphemy in black but screw the rules. It's too mana intensive to be a good boardwipe, in my opinion. The main concern is often Avacyn, but at that point it's 10 mana. Still, not a fan.

Yep, need more tutors. I agree Vampiric Tutor is good. That's why it's in the maybeboard.

The other 2 are meh, but tutors are good. If I really want a lot of tutoring, I'd just run Sidisi as my general.

Witchbane Orb protects my grave like a champ, while turning off Keranos, god of whatever.

The 0 drop rocks are for explosive starts and come in handy late game. (Plus I like them.) Are they not the best use if card slots, no. Are they good, yes.

I already run Massacre Wurm, Steel Hellkite can deal with not only tokens but also black's bane, artifacts and enchantments.

Ulamog is also mana intensive, and if drawn early game sucks. Least Unstable Obelisk does something in the meantime.

I don't mean to bash your choices, I welcome the advice, just in this case, I disagree with a lot of it.

pianist1119: play tests show the chain veil works better in Nahiri and her ilk, because having a plansewalker some if the time can kill you.

Reanimate and Animate Dead work for all graveyards if you didn't notice. They are a little better in my deck Oloro's Opulent Order because I can abuse them more than once. I see your point on how they may be lack luster. I wouldn't count them out until you try them honestly they are really good. I also mentioned if you were to use Unstable Obelisk the same turn you played it you might as well run Ulamog, otherwise yes your choice would be more useful.

I didn't notice you had Massacre Wurm in the deck I was just mentioning good black cards.also Necropotence + Venser's Journal = awesome

Definitely these: Gauntlet of Power, Phyrexian Reclamation, Staff of Nin, Caged Sun, Swiftfoot Boots, Lightning Greaves, Black Sun's Zenith(I like the -x/-x wraths like BSZ, Mutilate, and Toxic Deluge because it deals with Avacyn, Angel of Hope or Darksteel Forge+artifact dudes)
Maybe these: Ghoulcaller Gisa Rakshasa Gravecaller Erebos, God of the Dead Barter in Blood Grave Betrayal Grave Pact Dictate of Erebos Butcher of Malakir
I really like those last three because you will be sacrificing anyway, and that lets you do it while slowing your opponents.

For other effects that work when you sac your own dudes: Ogre Slumlord, Pawn of Ulamog, Grim Haruspex, Dark Prophecy, Reaper from the Abyss, Tragic Slip

I'm not a huge fan of Sign in Blood or Night's Whisper because your only +1 card, but I do like Ambition's Cost, Ancient Craving, Greed, Bloodgift Demon (this one is nice because it's also a creature so sac/reanimate), Infernal Tribute (this one is nice because it enables lili and our other effects)

Also we tend to lose a bit of life with black so I almost always play Tendrils of Agony and Corrupt

Ok, now I know I suggested like a million cards without telling you what to take out, and it is all a matter of preference, but some of my least favorite cards you are playing are:

• Kozilek, Butcher of Truth and Eye of Ugin I understand these are good if you run out of gas and have a million mana, but the plan in EDH is to generally win before we get to that point and we needed the slots, but like I said earlier, it's all prefrence
• Sangromancer (shes better in this deck than many, but imo shes not good enough in EDH)
  Viscera Seer (there are many sac outlets much better than him)
• Black Market 90% of the time this is just a bad Gauntlet of Power and it needs too much help
  Dismember I think Tragic Slip is usually better in EDH, most things that we truely care about aren't x/5's
• Chrome Mox and Mox Opal +1 mana for a card (or two) isn't that good, especially when our swamps usually give 2+ mana with Cabal Coffers, Gauntlet of Power, Caged Sun, Crypt Ghast, Nirkana Revenant
• Crucible of Worlds While this card is super good with Strip Mine and Strands of Night, it does tend to paint a huge target on us if we have either of those and those effects, and while strong, aren't that much weaker that without Crucible of Worlds in multiplayer EDH anyway
• Witchbane Orb, this care is either absolutely terrible, or its just ok, so I don't recommend it with so many other options (although stopping burn from hitting lili might be good enough, but just targeted burn isn't very good in EDH anyway)
• All Is Dust and Necromantic Selection 7 mana is too much for a wrath that doesn't draw you 10 cards (Decree of Pain) if it is problem perminants we are dealing with then Nevinyrral's Disk, maybe Perilous Vault, but I think we would prefer to put the creatures into the graveyard and not exile them.
• Liliana of the Dark Realms I know you were trying to play all the affordable lili's but shes is just so bad
• Sorin Markov, while putting a player to 10 might be huge game, it tends to pain a huge target on your head by all players, still might be worth running, but I would cut it.

Lili before spark has been added

Lies and deceit!

How do you actually win, besides with beats (which seems inefficient)? You mention combos, but could you please elaborate?

Mikaeus and Triskelion for infinite damage, exsanguinate for a ton or rise of the Dark realms tend to end games.

Also, have you tried Reassembling Skeleton with Culling the Weak? it makes infinite black mana as early as turn 2 and on a $1.00 budget, which is pretty sweet... xD. Anyway, +1 from me. I budget-ized your version, and it is what i based my Lili deck off of, so thanks.

The above doesn't make infinite black mana. Culling the Weak isn't a permanent. Also, I would personally up the number of tutors to find your combo pieces.

huh? why not?

oh, i see, i missed the errata, and did not play back when mana sources were a thing. oops... now i feel stupid.

whelp, i feel stupid. i just read the errata on culling the weak, and found out its not a permanent. OOPS. sorry for wasting a perfectly good comment box, lol

and...i posted to the wrong tab, wow its just not my day

Culling the Weak is a worse version of Dark Ritual, and I'm on the fence about that, so I will not be adding it. Thanks for the comment though, Mastertoa.

yeah, I know. I was merely suggesting it as part of a combo, but as that combo does not work, its kind of pointless

If this is a reanimator deck, I'd suggest cards like Entomb, Corpse Connoisseur, and Putrid Imp to put stuff into your graveyard. Then you could use cards like Reanimate, Animate Dead, and maybe even Exhume to bring them back. Hope these help. :)

If you ever want to check out my Mono-Black EDH deck for ideas, go right ahead.

Hey Juuzou, culling the weak isn't a worse dark ritual. It allows you to flip your commander, nets you 3 mana, and helps get things into your graveyard which is where black wants them to be. You could sac Filth to culling the weak, and get your commander flipped, 3 mana, and swampwalk for all your guys. Don't knock creature saccing for value.