Lili's Revelation (Liliana Primer)

Commander / EDH CuteSnail

SCORE: 270 | 425 COMMENTS | 74045 VIEWS | IN 145 FOLDERS


CuteSnail says... #1

They could trick bind the flip trigger, but she's still on board Thanks.

March 14, 2015 2:28 p.m.

zero51423 says... #2

Well, it never even occurred to me that the new flipping planeswalkers could be commanders. Some things to consider though.

Mimic Vat would be really good with a lot of your creatures. The token won't trigger a liliana flip, but a lot of your creatures make it worth it in their own right.

You don't have a whole lot of ranimate effects (though you do have a few). It might be good to have something that can bring itself back so you always have a reliable way to flip liliana. Bloodghast would be really good for this. You might also want an Entomb to put it in the graveyard.

If you are going to be going for the emblem regularly, you're going to be discarding a lot of cards. If you want to continue to be a threat when things go wrong, you're going to want a lot of draw power. You already have Phyrexian Arena and Mind's Eye, but it might also be good to put in a Staff of Nin or maybe one time draw sources like Ambition's Cost or Ancient Craving

March 16, 2015 1:16 p.m.

barfsymphony says... #3

I love this deck haha. Leyline of the Void in your maybeboard seems to interfere with a lot of the synergy from other cards in your deck, though. That's the only real rift I notice (probably why it's in the maybeboard?).

March 17, 2015 6:59 p.m.

CuteSnail says... #4

barfsymphony pretty much. I don't want feldon and karador to run wild. Plus I have only a few cards that interact with opponents graves.

March 17, 2015 7:50 p.m.

haru0504 says... #5

I would suggest adding Rise of the Dark Realms and Myojin of Night's Reach to the deck. Your deck seems to have a theme of discarding cards from your opponents and and resurrecting creatures. I'd replace All Is Dust with Necromantic Selection, you wouldn't destroy non-creatures but in return you get one of the creatures destroyed. Plus if your playing against eldrazi or artifact creatures it'll be sure to wipe them out.

March 22, 2015 2:18 p.m.

CuteSnail says... #6

haru0504 I'm trying to find spots for both Myojin of Night's Reach and Rise of the Dark Realms they're in the maybeboard.

All Is Dust is mainly for non-creatures.

Necromantic Selection and It's on the list of cards I want to get into the deck. But again I need to find cads to cut.

March 22, 2015 2:59 p.m.

Virlym says... #7

Some suggestions for cuts:

Sadistic Hypnotist - Sorcery speed activation
Toxic Deluge - You don't want to dump so much mana in, Mutilate, Liliana of the Dark Realms or Black Sun's Zenith are better.
Sever the Bloodline - Sorcery speed removal that is usually just spot removal unless it's a key card in multiple decks or tokens (usually if it's tokens, the sorcery speed won't help anyways)
Gauntlet of Power - Although it's nice, it helps your opponents too unlike Caged Sun
Eldrazi Monument - You don't really need this, if it's the flying you want, run Akroma's Memorial
Whip of Erebos - Really just an artifact that gives lifelink, the active doesn't help you so much due to the exile.
Viscera Seer - Just a very fragile sac outlet, there are better sac outlets.

March 22, 2015 10:34 p.m.

CuteSnail says... #8

Virlym I cut Toxic Deluge for Necromantic Selection.

Sadistic Hypnotist may be sorcery speed but the discard make him hated. he''s very powerful.

Sever the Bloodline: you seem to dislike this card. In my meta EVERYONE forgets it has flashback and exile is something black needs more of. In my meta Avacyn, Angel of Hope is copied like crazy in my meta so it's a powerful card in my meta. I will probably never cut it.

Gauntlet of Power: I see what you're saying. It's high on the chopping block. It does seem to have some political power which is kinda cool.

Eldrazi Monument is mainly for the indestructible. the fact that it makes me sac a creature some times is actual a bonus. See my general.

Whip of Erebos is more for lifelink than the reanimate, but the reanimate does help on occasion.

Viscera Seer is a good sac outlet that can flip liliana on turn 3. so I like it.

March 23, 2015 2:07 p.m.

Didgeridooda says... #9

What are you looking for? Also, what is the budget looking like for suggestions?

I have a couple mono black EDH decks. Both are combo. Terrible EDH deck is dumb, but Feelin' Triskey is more of a real deck. I just use triskelion combo in the second, and Leyline of the Void+Helm of Obedience, and try to ramp, and tutor them out.

March 25, 2015 12:49 p.m.

6tennis says... #10

Oh boy! This is gonna be fun. All the Obs - Ob Nixilis, Unshackled, Ob Nixilis, the Fallen, and Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath. Cauldron of Souls (because Mike is an EDH bomb). Malicious Affliction. Flesh Carver, Shriekmaw, Reaper from the Abyss and Morkrut Banshee. Do these help?

March 25, 2015 12:52 p.m.

6tennis says... #11

March 25, 2015 12:52 p.m.

Didgeridooda says... #12

March 25, 2015 12:53 p.m.

Didgeridooda says... #13

Also, Greed, Necropotence, Bloodgift Demon, Null Profusion.

I run lots of draw, and ramp. It helps a bunch.

March 25, 2015 12:56 p.m.

CuteSnail says... #14

I have a friend who I hated losing to and they say that I refuse to build better decks.

So I want a mean deck. I'm thinking combo/control with reanimation subtheme.

Decks I face a lot:

Deer Lord

I miss you

Death in Bloom

Ruhan funzorz

March 25, 2015 12:58 p.m.

CuteSnail says... #15

I prefer creatures to non creatures. I feel 25 isn't enough for reanimator.

Reaper backfires. Banshee is limited. I have a lot of draw. Looping Kozilek with eye of Ugin tends to do that.

I also want rise of the dark realms to be a win con.

March 25, 2015 1:04 p.m.

Didgeridooda says... #16

Really if you stick to insane draw//insane ramp, you can do all sorts of crazy things.

I need to get some more early ramp in mine.

March 25, 2015 1:05 p.m.

CuteSnail says... #20

I feel confident with the amount of draw. It's been uped recently due to not enough. Didgeridooda

March 25, 2015 2:37 p.m.

muse99 says... #21

Hey, nice deck. I was also looking at the new Lily thinking of brewing something with her.

I got some feedback for you:

  • I don't know how competitive your meta is but I feel your average CMC is way too high. Goodstuff decks with green will outramp you. Good control decks with blue will progress to the midgame much faster than you and will find it easier to gain card advantage. I feel you're running too many bombs and not enough draw/filtering/ramp/utility and the deck also lacks spot removal (see below).
  • You've positioned this as a combo deck. What exactly is the combo then? The things you listed feel like synergy to me, not so much game winning combo. I see the old Mikaeus, the Unhallowed + Triskelion in your list, but not enough redundancy to pull that off game after game. Combo decks need to win with a redundant combo they can quickly and repeatedly assemble and protect. Combo decks are either so fast control decks cannot stop them or they are combo/control and the control shell protects the combo. I don't think your deck fits either of these broad categories.
  • Instead, I would position the deck as mono-black control with high synergy (reanimator and/or stax) and using combo's as alternate wincons or ways to accrue card advantage. For this you would need to improve the control shell. In my opinion the deck mainly lacks instant-speed (spot) removal (e.g. Dismember or Diabolic Edict) and draw/tutor (Skeletal Scrying, Necropotence, Vampiric Tutor, etc.).
  • Chain Veil. I don't think this card is good in anything but dedicated superfriends.dec and even there it's sketchy. You only have your commander as a target and only when she is flipped. This is not very efficient. You listed it under "getting that emblem" but to be honest I doubt it's going to do it for you. In my opinion a card needs to be good on its own or have synergy with circa 15 other cards for it to be worthwhile running in EDH. For combo pieces this is different but then you either need redundancy or tutors to find that card.

Anyway, the comments above just reflect my opinion on deckbuilding for EDH. I hope you can do something with my feedback.

Good luck!

March 27, 2015 7:51 a.m.

CuteSnail says... #22

muse99 thanks for the extensive look!

My meta isn't very competitive.

I probably should have updated the deck last night before cycling. It got a bit better with the update.

My draw is still a little lacking.My ramp is fine as long as I get to cast any of the following at least once: Crypt Ghast, Burnished Hart, Solemn Simulacrum, or Nirkana Revenant. And with all my tutors I'm not worried about missing them.Plus it's silly to compare ramping to a green deck. The green deck will always outramp mono black.

I prefer to have my cards draw attached to creatures.

Feel free to take a look at the deck again. Maybe suggest specific cards and good cuts for them. Thanks.

March 27, 2015 10:34 a.m.

muse99 says... #23

-x-Juuzou-x-x-,

Early game disruption is a good way to level the playing field against green ramp. I would suggest something like Hypnotic Specter to apply pressure. Syphon Mind is very strong in multiplayer as it's both early game disruption and card advantage.

I would cut some cards in the 7CMC+ bracket. Even if your meta is not very competitive, bringing your average CMC down will smoothen your curve and prevent you from having too many bombs in the early game. In my opinion, a bomb must either be able to do the heavy lifting on its own or at least have an immediate impact on the board state. Below I have rated all the cards 7CMC and up based on these criteria. You can use your own judgment to determine what you want to cut.

  • Butcher of Malakir - Too expensive for what it does, has no immediate impact on the board state on its own.
  • Rune-Scarred Demon - Although I find Sidisi better, RSD is still quite strong with an immediate impact on the game.
  • Sheoldred, Whispering One - No immediate impact, but this card can singlehandedly win you the game if it is allowed to stay on the board
  • Akroma's Memorial - This is an odd card in this list, I might have missed the discussion on its inclusion. Although a very strong global effect, it's quite expensive. It's stronger the more creatures you have so you usually see it in token lists. Since you run strong creatures already, its relative impact will be smaller.
  • All Is Dust - Excellent card in this list, also dealing with a permanent type black usually has problems with (enchantments).
  • Necromantic Selection - I think the upside is too small to warrant paying 7 CMC for just a creature sweeper. I would prefer the flexibility and low cost of Toxic Deluge myself.
  • Myojin of Night's Reach - Immediate impact on the board: check, Ability to win the game: check
  • Ugin, the Spirit Dragon - I think Karn Liberated is better since it can deal with artifacts and it has a more relevant +1, but Ugin is a decent walker.
  • Rise of the Dark Realms - Very strong effect for a very steep cost. I generally don't run it since my meta is quite fast and has more graveyard hate so its effect is not as strong. You said your meta is not very competitive so this can be a wincon for you.
  • Kozilek, Butcher of Truth - The ETB means it has an immediate impact on the board and the creature itself is pretty scary. I value it more in colors which have trouble drawing cards such as white and red and would prefer to run cheaper card draw in black. This is just my preference though.
March 27, 2015 12:02 p.m.

CuteSnail says... #24

I'm taking this to fnm tonight so I'll play test the edits and try to find replacements.

March 27, 2015 12:30 p.m.

KuribohJesus says... #25

Might I recommend Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath

March 28, 2015 3:01 p.m.

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