I believe that's an auto include in Krenko, Mob Boss + Purphoros, God of the Forge decks. It also has tons of potential in Brago, King Eternal who is already listed as Tier 1.

That card is so good, I'm happy. I've felt that EDH hasn't gotten many good new toys in recent sets.

Several questions. Why do people think smokestacks is so good outside of legacy? It isn't bad, but people treat it like an instant win, even though it is slow and is easily removed by everything sans black. Second, some guy is building nicol at my shop amd 30 cards are combo pieces it runs no removal and the ramp package is just sol ring and gem he spent 1.2k on this and not only thinks it is good, but that it is capable of consistant t4 wins. Why do people think this is what a combo deck is?

Smokestack is amazing because it can more or less create a resource lock and it only takes something like Bitterblossom to break it. It is the classic stax piece. Stax is named after it. The card is the pinnacle of asymmetrical resource denial and is an effect that isn't really able to be duplicated. The slowness is also not a big deal because stax is literally the slowest archetype there is. I love the card and while it isn't really worthwhile in most prison lists (which seem the most common stax form floating around EDH), it is the crown jewel of true stax lists.

As for the Nicol Bolas guy, he's an idiot. Don't concern yourself with the ramblings of morons.

Please stop saying stax is named after smokestacks. And again im not saying it isnt good, but in edh it loses quite a bit of flair. Also the only "true stax list" is t4k$. But I guess the slowness of stax makes up for it, but a Couple commanders can outrace your soot output (however they are all t2)

T3* . also does sisay use thallia heretical?

@Hotcake_Gotsyrup: It's a common misconception. In more casual metas, Smokestack is alright because games are slower and it can usually start accruing value in time to still be relevant. It's not really playable at the top of the format though, since it's a 4-drop that takes a full turn cycle to even begin generating value.

The Pile-O-Combo-Pieces is another common casual trope. They think having multiple non-overlapping 3+ card combos is desirable for whatever reason, when in reality it simply leads to hands filled with dead cards.

I said it once. And the entire archetype being named after the card does mean something. In EDH it isn't the greatest thing ever, but it's still an excellent piece. When considering counters, as well, T3 decks usually don't enter the conversation and very few T2 decks would really make me metagame around them in any way. Building to beat anything, but the T1 lists seems like wasted effort. Makes me wonder a little if Narset will get T1-level again after some of the silver bullets that decks had for her get dedicated to other things since she's now T2.

So, I finally managed to get ahold one of the better-built Edric decks that occasionally circuits Cockatrice. BigLupu is usually a solid deck builder, and his list seems good. Definitely a strong contender for the long-awaited Edric decklist in description, though the deck's lack of a primer is a bit of a letdown. Link to List

NarejED Actually, I just brewed something up for Edric today.

I was like, "What can I add to a tier 1 aggro/control deck to make it better? ...Oh yeah, Hermit Druid combo."

The combo is just 4 slots: Hermit Druid, Laboratory Maniac, Deep Analysis, Memory's Journey (you use the combat step for the last draw); and Edric's usual extra turn spells keep you from needing to keep Hermit Druid alive for a whole turn cycle most of the time.

I haven't gotten to making a description yet, but so far my playtests have been really promising. Turn 6 or earlier wins with counterspell protection every time.

Hermits Make The Best Spies... Wait, What?

Commander / EDH* sonnet666

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Also can we stop it with the cEDH lists? The one you posted for Leovold has more dead weight than both mine and Lilbrudder's brews, and I really don't see the point of all the reanimation effects.

I'm not a fan of The Gitrog Monster list we have up either. I've been working on something to replace it for a while. I have a tendency to get sidetracked though.

I know the cEDH sub-reddit is supposed to be the place for competitive commander and all, but a lot of their card choices seem really hivemind-y. They tend to put the same cards in every deck because they know those cards are good, when there are more synergistic and efficient cards for the build itself, which they will completely overlook.

Besides, if people want to see what cEDH is doing, they'll look at cEDH. We should be doing our own thing here.

why is General Tazri tier one

lewiswtsn She helms a Food Chain combo deck that uses her as a sink for the infinite mana and gets infinite triggers off of Hagra Diabolist.

It's super consistent, and this question is part of why we need an FAQ.

@sonnet666: The reanimator effects are in to support the deck's main win condition: Hermit Druid.

You may dislike cEDH-based lists for whatever reason, but they're tried and true, usually constructed by expert deckbuilders and tested/tweaked for multiple hours. They're an excellent default when no other optimized lists are available.

Also, that Edric deck you made looks awesome. I would add in Yisan, Chord of Calling, Mox Diamond, Mana Crypt, Sol Ring, and Carpet of Flowers as immediate upgrades. Gitaxian probe may also be worth looking into here due to the nature of the combo. Yisan is obviously essentially a one-card combo that wins on three counters here, since you can grab Druid on someone's endstep, then immediately go for Lab Man on your upkeep in response to activating Druid.

Cultivator of Blades. I can't figure out how to link the photo.

Looks amazing for Ezuri, Claw of Progress. Gives you 3 Experience counters when you drop it and makes all of your creatures awesome in combat.

NarejED: I agree with you that the deckbuilders on subreddit are great in general. I have learned a great deal from thier lists and comments, but at the same time sonnet666 is absolutely right that their card choices for individual decks are not always the best and they sometimes try to force their "tried and true strategy" with a general it does not fit perfectly with. I also think it is a bit premature to say hermit druid>doomsday (or vice versa) for Leo based on the small sample sizes in mirror matches we have.

I'm only somewhat sorry about the double post...One thing I am certain of is that no Leo deck can be considered optimized if the win condition takes up more than 5-6 slots in the deck. 9 times out of 10 if Teferi's Puzzle Box sticks until the end of your turn or a wheel resolves with Anvil of Bogardan on the board all opponents will simply concede. Using a bulky 10+ card hermit druid package that clashes with the rest of the deck is pointless. Originally with Doomsday I had three distinct piles, but after some testing I am down to one simply because Leo gives so much resilience to these fragile combos you can go bare bones without it backfiring and deck slots are better served elsewhere.

General Tazri is tier 1 because she is a game winning outlet for an incredibly fast and resilient Food Chain deck.

Lilbrudder do you think that artifact belongs in Sidisi? Milling 3 twice is very attractive.

Ohthenoises: In a more midrange build with a high proportion of ETB creatures it would be pretty sick. I'm definitely going to stuff it into as many casual EDH decks I own that can support it. With that being said I am not sure an optimal sidisi build would use it since the bar for inclusion in BUG is so ridiculously high. In a fast combo deck it is way too slow since Food Chain and Necrotic Ooze combos can win the game with just a 4 mana investment.

Yeah I get that, I was just considering your ETB build.

Oh yeah its really good in that build.

It's worth noting that it goes infinite with palinchron.

@Lilbrudder: Some players scoop to wheels/Puzzlebox, and some don't, just like sometimes Leovold sticks, and sometimes he doesn't. He's already proving to be an extremely large hate magnet for very obvious reasons. It's important to be able to win without him one way or another.

Nice. I'm pretty excited about using Flash on Rune-Scarred Demon with it. Perhaps with Mikaeus, the Unhallowed in play. Overkill?

NarejED: I agree. I also have no issue with Hermit Druid as the win condition. I just don't think going all in by using 4-6 cards that are useless outside the combo in the deck to facilitate a potential turn 2-3 victory that is extremely well known and can go horribly wrong very easy without Leo support is optimal

Speaking of which: I updated my Leovold list to be able to Doomsday and HD without Leo:

Leovold, Because Everybody Else Is Doing It

Commander / EDH* sonnet666

SCORE: 2 | 1 COMMENT | 78 VIEWS

NarejED, I'm glad you liked the deck.

Carpet of Flowers is in the sideboard. I know it's good in competitive circles, I just don't like mainboarding cards that are meta calls. The best card to swap for it is probably Wild Growth. (Also, I always feel like if I play it turn 1, all the blue players will try to screw with me by playing their non-basics so I won't get a turn 2 Edric.)

I left out Sol Ring and Mana Crypt on purpose. All the one-drop creatures make the deck highly color-intensive, and the only cards really worth ramping into are the extra turn spells, which are significantly less useful when you play them before turn 3. I'm looking at it like the extra ways to grab Gaea's Cradle are essentially taking their slots. I was also worried about including Mox Diamond with such a low land count, but now that I've playtested a little, I think that's probably a non-issue.

I was thinking about Gitaxian Probe too, but I think with the ability to draw off of combat it's not really necessary.

That Yisan suggestion is on-point though. Definite include, and I think I'm going to find room for him in my Leovold list as well, since it's running a similar combo.