I_TappedWrong how does alesha kill someone t3 with her ability? I was under the impression we was a hatebears/stax general, not a t3 kill aggro deck. We (read: gigi, narej, and others who know better than me) do base it off of ability, and color, and p/t. that is why vorosh, despite being in what is arguably the best color combo in edh, is t5. also, *per se, and it doesn't even fit there.

t1 land + Sol Ring t2 land + Alesha, Who Smiles at Death t3 Entomb + Master of Cruelties

you asked so im just showing you the god hand im not expecting to have this every time, but having just two cards to make it happen is pretty good...

g

i assumed. i guess that is an alright thing, but it doesn't win you the game. every deck with black in it can win turn technically win t1. leyline of void in starting hand, swamp dark ritual helm activate. doesn't make every black deck t1.

meant kill one person, not win sorry for DP

yeah i never said it would win the game, but it is something that shouldnt be overlooked. idk i just have a hard time seeing tasigur in tier 1 especially after he got banned in french edh

wut?- banned- hard time seeing . . . in tier 1- BANNED

yeah hes pretty good in french edh, but while i was looking all the generals here seemed to be listed as regular edh not french. i was stating that to give the card some respect to where it does shine.

if he is banned in french it is safe to assume he is at least decent in normal.

im not saying he isnt decent im just saying he isnt tier 1, and hes not tier 1. at the end of the day thats just my opinion and i know people will disagree and thats fine. the card is a card and at the end of the day it speaks for it self.

"im not saying he isnt decent im just saying he isnt tier 1, and hes not tier 1" so definitive. Back to useful conversation, has anyone made a rashmi decklist yet? i cant wait to see the value town engines people make for her.

haha wow. youre right im wrong bows down have a good day thanks for the friendly disagreement...

Hotcake_Gotsyrup, Here's a list from a source I like: Rashmi, Eternities Crafter. I don't know if it's the best strategy, but honestly she doesn't point you in too much of a direction other than, "play a spell on each player's turn," so you could probably build her whichever way you want. Apparently Forbid and Capsize are secret all-stars, and Seedborn Muse seems like a good time.

I_TappedWrong, I know everyone has differing opinions, but have you tried looking at the Tasigur decklist in the description? There are lots of commanders that look like they'd be horribly inefficient in commander that then turn out to powerhouses because of how the deck is built. Tasigur is one of them.

Also, his abilities scale super well to multiplayer, the reason he's not banned here is just that he draws more hate, not that he's any less effective. (Think 5-color Hermit Druid, not Geist of Saint Traft.)

Alesha can easily kill the table on turn 3-4 in a number of ways. Tasigur can just do it a bit faster in more ways. Can we keep our discussions a little more civil? It really perpetuates the stereotype that all competitive people are dicks. Its pretty easy to find flaw with Tasigur if you don' play alot of cEDH. Lets educate not roast

so i can just use my jori en shell as a baseline and it will be a vertical upgrade, cool. i hope they release a legend who cares about energy in rg, because if they do, im actually going to cream myself

Sonnet, normally I'd agree but that's not quite a fair assumption. In Purph decks it's actually more like doubling season rolled into gratuitous violence at 4 mana.

It's not just purph' etbs that are getting doubled, it's stuff like Battlesphere and other ETB token makers like Beetleback Chief, Pia and Kiran Nalaar, and Siege-Gang Commander They now produce twice as many bodies. Pia and Kiran will deal 20 to each opponent, Siege gang is 28, etc.

Battlesphere however will deal a whopping 36 damage to the table when it hits.

i wish vehicles did something really cool outside of making inspired go of without attacking, i want to run them in edh so much. at least i get a dwarf

Ohthenoises, and Chancellor of the Forge will usually one shot everyone, I know. I play Purphoros. He was my first commander. Panharmonicon is definitely good for Purphoros, I just don't think it's as amazing as people are hyping it up to be.

On another note: the newly spoiled is an extra combo piece for Kiki-Jiki and Karmic Guide loops. Could be nice in Saffi, maybe some other stuff like combo Alesha and Karador decks that want a secondary combo to Boonweaver.

Also Morbid Curiosity is a nice draw spell for reanimator decks.

I'm not saying that it's amazing for every deck, just Daretti, purph, and even my feldon are getting a pretty massive upgrade and that this may push 2 of the three to closer to T1. Doubtful T1 but more of a 1.5.

I'm pretty excited for Chandra, Torch of Defiance. She has a potential home in my Narset list as the Red JTMS. Now, that may be a slight exaggeration, but card advantage off the top for mana rocks, +RR mana to ramp (which is a big deal if you cast her with 4 mana on turn 2 as it gives you 7 for either REB or a haste outlet on T3 with your land drop, or 6 mana with no land and a haste outlet in play), potential removal for problem blockers (4 is the magic number since she handles anything that is 3 or less with first strike), and an ultimate that will end the game in conjunction with Narset flipping spells, which is a pretty efficient way to end it without too many combats since you hit Omniscience+ETI and machinegun people with all the spells in your deck. She just seems like she helps the deck at all phases of the game.

I'm also sure she is great in some other red lists as she's pretty much the best Red PW ever printed (that doesn't say a ton, but I think she is crazy strong).

Ohthenoises, What you're saying is exactly what I mean by "not as amazing as the hype." Yeah, it's great in Purph (and Daretti and Feldon I suppose), but let us remember: Red has practically no tutor power; every color has ways to blow this up; it competes with Purph's casting cost; and you're not going to be able to play this and an ETB token spawner in the same turn, so you just spent a turn not doing anything and making yourself look super threatening.

It's not going make any commander jump a tier unless the commander itself has an ETB ability worth doubling and can tutor effectively enough to get it most games. I'm thinking of Panharmonicon the same way I think of Smokestack: they're both great cards that enable lots of cool things in the decks that can support them, but they both also do nothing when you first play them, draw a ton of hate, aren't terribly efficient or brokenly good, and are going to overestimated by casual and competitive players alike.

RivenVII, I like Chandra too, but I think she has some drawbacks that keep her from being effective in commander:

1) She doesn't generate creatures or have large enough burn effect to reliably clear out attackers, so if you play her with an empty board, she's probably gonna die.

2) She doesn't have a powerful enough minus ability for you to one-and-done her the way you can with something like Tezzeret the Seeker or Dack Fayden.

3) The card advantage you get from her is a little iffy. You probably won't have enough mana to cast the top card of your library the turn you play her, and the ability can't get you lands. Plus the timing restriction is weird.

I still think she's a good card, but PW's have a really high barrier to entry in commander, because killing them by attacking is just free card advantage for your opponents. (I'm actually of the opinion that JTMS is mediocre in EDH.) Just at a glance, a deck that can support and wants to have new Chandra is going to need a high creature presence, weak ramp, and a low number of reactive spells you wouldn't want to hit with her +1.

I think that's a big issue. Yes she is a great Red Planeswalker but for Commander, that isn't saying much. I think she is extremely overhyped right now.

I tend to see cards that allow you to play the top card of your deck, without it being free as a mostly useless ability. Very rarely are you actually going to use that ability and play the top card of your library while her burn in Commander is laughable.

The great benefit I see, if you do cast her from hand, she is a 5 Loyalty, 2 cost Planeswalker. That's cool.

Are her other abilities that good? Her Ultimate is purely win more, is it not? What is the likelihood she will get that far? Slim to none. I haven't seen a Planeswalker Ult in over 18 months.

Besides for that, she is a 4 cost removal spell? That's fairly expensive. She may have a use in Mono-Red.

Jace, the Mind Sculptor has a use in many decks I believe because even at 4 mana, Brainstorm is a god card. Getting combo pieces and just general good stuff from your hand back into your deck is invaluable for Commanders like Zur the Enchanter and Narset, Enlightened Master. Even Arcum Dagsson appreciates some good Brainstorm.

Blue is also just a better color all around. More decks run it and JtMS is all around better. Remember the old saying, "The longer you play Magic, the more you play Blue."

I'm not saying Chandra is bad, I may even try to include her in my Superfriends. She probably won't make it, but I'll give her a chance. She is by far my favorite Chandra and what I see as possibly the only one that may have a use in EDH.

iAzire, "She is by far my favorite Chandra and what I see as possibly the only one that may have a use in EDH."

I think you're forgetting Chandra, Flamecaller.

Boardwipe. Draw. Sac Fodder.

Best Chandra, second best mono-red planeswalker in EDH.

This may be me just being paranoid, but I'm worried that Panharmonicon will get Purphoros, God of the Forge banned. Not because he's OP from a cEDH standpoint, but because it's an unfun interaction and Sheldon has already stated the Purph is on the committee's watchlist.