@iAzire: Kind of hard to stop him sometimes. If you're dropping him on turn 2-3 with mana open for countermagic and immediately swinging in with several creatures to draw multiple cards, your opponents are pretty boned.

Plus, keep in mind that in cEDH, there are likely three other good decks at the table. You'll only be drawing 100% of the hate in casual games where Edric is the only threat.

If you think he's purely group hug, you've clearly never seen Edric in action before. That would also explain your misconceptions on his card advantage ratios and apparent lack of protection.

in all of the games ive played against edric at a competitive level, ive only seen a few people actually get any decent card advantage out of an opposing edric. not many decks run the mass of evasive fast creatures needed to actually make use of the effect. most t1 and 2 decks win though combo or stax locks, and usually dont have a creature cluster that they can abuse the edric draw with, it is usually just a couple people sending trinket mages at each other. also, as narej has said, you shouldnt really be getting archenemied at a cEDH table unless you just show and telled into a blightsteel or something, or are literally a piece away from comboing out. that argument only really applies to more casual tables, in which case that argument could be made for any t1/t2 commander. if you sit down and pull out grixis storm at a casual table, you get archenemied. you get a soft lock on turn 3 with daretti, you get archenemied. this shouldn't be an argument you can make towards a commander, if anything that should attest to how good it is that it threatens players in the way it does. hope that all made sense, i'm bad at articulating my thoughts through text.

that made lots of sense Hotcake_Gotsyrup.

As a side note, I played some cEDH with Leovold, Emissary of Trest on monday. 2 multiplayer and 6 1v1.

Multiplayer was interesting though of course I was learning the deck at the time. I managed to play Levold on turn 2 every match and had a wheel for turn 3. The trouble I had was having Counterspell protection at the ready each time since that required me to tutor on turn 1 sometimes to guarantee it. But the pieces are there to make that happen. I didn't win either of the multiplayer games because it turned into Archenemy on turn 3 or earlier lol.

The 1v1 matches however made me realize to what degree Leovold is oppressive. Out of the 6 matches I played I won 4 hands down. 1 of the losses was because I decided to goof around and the second was a misplay on my part during my Doomsday setup.

The games were super fun though.

I played multi against: Karador, Ghost Chieftain, Maelstrom Wanderer, Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir

1v1 against: Marchesa, the Black Rose (won a few times), Jhoira of the Ghitu (loss due to missplay with doomsday, win otherwise). Another deck I can't recall at the moment which was a win.

1 drop green legend that makes artifacts. Interesting.

Also a blue Phyrexian Arena on legs for artifact decks. Which is ok if you don't want to play Arcum, Memnarch, or Muzzio for some reason:

Might be good in the 99 of those decks as well.

Also we just got a more playable flagbearer effect that can go on your opponent's creatures (which has never happened before):

Anyone who's played with them know that flagbearers are actually super annoying and disruptive, so I'm excited to try this out.

no energy commander #mad

Yeah it seems odd that none of the legendaries so far can create or use energy...

Padeem is definitely going into Muzzio, but I don't like him as a commander. Doesn't enable his own ability in any way, but works very well alongside Arcum/Muzzio/Memnarch. Probably tier 4 material.

Oviya is cool, but probably a little worse than Rhys, both in abilities and lack of white (loses token synergies and stax effects). Probably tier 4, but maybe there's interactions I'm missing.

Well her ability is a tap ability so maybe as a way to spam out tokens before Yisaning into a Hoof? idk, first thought is "Neat! but terrible"

Hey guys, I'm semi-new to edh, I started in modern, and I was wondering about Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker's tier. I believe he could move up a tier because:
1. he can be fast
2. he can go infinite
3. he has an alternate game plan (copying creatures with ETB effect for lots of value)
4. he has haste, the relevance of this ability increases as the number of players does

originally I thought that maybe he was in tier 3 because he wasn't good enough for the tier 2 decks, (he's definitely better than Zirilan of the Claw, the other mon-red general I know anything about) and while I agree he'll be fairly low on the tier 2 list I saw Tier 2 has Kallia the Vast and Titania, Protector of Argoth, do these decks have combos that I'm missing?

Answering some arguments made against Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker:
1. Kiki is monored. Kiki is indeed mono-red but I think that we should look at why mono-red is bad and see if this applies to Kiki, the main reason mono-red is bad is because it doesn't run many tutors, while this is a legitimate downside, it is not crippling, Kiki list are ale to run a lot of redundancy in their lists to make up for it.
2. Kiki is just an odd assemblage of bad/untutorable combos that don't overlap, without all 3 combo pieces you just have dead cards. On the contrary Kiki's combos overlap closely generally dividing into 3 categories: Kiki, Sac outlet, etb effects. any combination of those categories should go infinite. Additionally Kiki lists have Less cards that are useless outside of their combo then many decks since sac outlets are good when you have a commander that makes tokens you'll lose anyways (copy, attack/do whatever-with-it, sac for additional value) and the etb effects are generally plenty powerful on their own (Zealous Conscripts is an excellent example.
3. Kiki is bad since all his combos rely on him being on the field. This depends on the build your running, the build that I'm considering making has 1 combo with a lot of redundancy outside of Kiki. Second the fact that we need our commander is less of a downside in Kiki list because Kiki has haste, not having to wait for a board rotation helps mitigate the downside of needing of Kiki on the battlefield.

Anyway, just thought I'd throw it out there and see what your opinions are.

Of course, I (and probably everyone else) would like to see a list before passing judgement.

Thanks for the info on Yisan, the Wanderer Bard. I think that the list Wee_Dragonaut linked is a better primer to link to than the one we currently have as the de facto decklist, mainly because of the exposition.

For easy access:

Current: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/wanderers-song/?cat=cost&sort=

Alternative: http://landdestruction.com/yisan-the-wanderer-bard-edh-deck/

@BaronBS: Funny you should say that. Until a few short weeks ago, Landdestruction's list was the linked deck. However, a consensus was reached that Shaper's list is both more tuned and more up to date. Ultimately better deck won out over better description.

The stax portion really just sends Yisan over the top. An early Tangle Wire/Winter Orb and I can keep a wrath at bay even easier than before, and with Cradle I can power through both of those effects and just Yisan everything I need.

Kalia really doesn't need combos, the ability on a flying creatures pretty insane let's say you get her out turn three turn 4 you can have a balefire dragon out and attacking or a lord of the void plus she's in Mardu which has great colors for removal and protecting her that's why she's tier 2

Question guys, my LGS has Two-Headed Giant EDH tournaments on occasion. Sometimes it's random teammates, thus you can't build decks together.

Other times, you pick your partner, BUT the two teammates can't double up on a Single color. For example, if your partner is running Blue, you can't run Blue. So between the two decks, you only have the five colors available.

What do you guys think would be the most competitive combo when picking your Ally? I believe that Edric, Spymaster of Trest is broken in 2HG. That leaves Mardu colors. Perhaps a Kaalia of the Vast? Queen Marchesa?

Or do you think two other Commanders, (without Edric), would be better for two decks built together?

I think Alesha, Who Smiles at death would be an ideal partner. An aggressive hatebear stax deck would be brutal alongside Edric. Kalia is also good

Alesha would be the better option probably though kaalia could get pretty insane

Alesha would be the better option probably though kaalia could get pretty insane

There aren't any really strong decks in any combination of Black, White, and Red. I would say your best overall option is Sidisi, Undead Vizier. She's extremely glass cannon, she's also one of the fastest decks in the game. Consistent turn 3-4 wins are the norm. Coupled with Edric's impenetrable wall of counterspells and the incidental card advantage he grants you and you should have a solid pair.

I know you'll disagree NarejED but you have got to be one of the best cEDH players around. You are by far my favorite deck builder. I love to bounce my decks off yours to see what we have the same and what we have different.

Back on topic, I think that could work. I'll try to make some deck lists. I want to make both decks so when the tournament comes, I can just find a competent partner and use both of the decks I built. Optimization for 2HG slaying.

Why thank you <3

I know that without NarejED my Meren deck wouldn't be as good as it is. Now to add to the conversation...Or start a new one. IS there any possibility of building a creature heavy deck for tier one play? I see a lot of control and combo but I would be a lot more interested in playing creatures. Is there a commander that suits those needs? Besides Animar?

Animar, Edric, Derevi, Karador, and Yisan are all very soundly creature based decks. No, they aren't traditional "fair" creature based decks as they all try for some sort of combo as is necessary to win fast enough, but their combos and lines of play are strongly grounded in creature-based strategies (Derevi is just creature beatdowns through stax locks).

Hey guys, the Momir Vig, Simic Visionary is fairly out of date. Are we looking for a new one or content with the strategem the current primer outlines(minus the Prophet of Kruphix plan?