@RandomMagicPlayer: Typically you want cards that hate out specific strategies, such as Extract, Cursed Totem, Torpor Orb, and Nihil Spellbomb. Focus on the biggest threats in your meta and stick tools designed to cripple them in the SB.

narej did you get my request before the comment sweep?

Glissa, the Traitor is a good general. I have used her at times and she is a load of fun. However she is outclassed by many tier 2 G/B generals. G/B just doesn't support artifacts enough for her to be relevant.

Food Chain Tazri is disgustingly powerful. There is no doubt that list is tier 1

So I know Voltron typically doesn't do well in cEDH but I really wonder about Kalemne's placement in T4.

I've tweaked a build with her for a little while now and it's just disgusting.

It runs a heavy amount of ramp to ensure T2-3 Kalemne and then, the following turns, into things like Savage Beating, Aggravated Assault, World at War, Aurelia, and Godo. Godo being particularly nasty due to he ability to search out a haste source for himself or a evasion/protection tool for Kalemne if a haste tool is already present.

I'm not saying T2 here but I've seen it do nasty things in multiplayer even against some of the top decks.

I've seen it otk the whole table by turn 5 before.

(Disclaimer: it's actually my wife's deck but I've been helping her tweak it)

Do we have the optimized rashmi list in the brewing or is she just in spec atm? If any exists, link please. Just trying to upgrade my Azusa deck without going the yisan path and cascading for lands seems fun. Thanks all

Ohthenoises, The problem with Kalemne isn't so much her speed, it's more her power level after she hits the field. Sure, you can get Kalemne down in the first few turns and follow her up with an extra combat spell, but even if you do, if you're not building into the exp buff (which is silly), then you're still only dealing 12 damage per turn. That means you play her, and you typically have a whole two turn cycles before you'll be able to even take a player out of the game.

If we compare that to the other dedicated voltron commanders in T3 (Bruna, Light of Alabaster, Rafiq of the Many, Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon, Sigarda, Host of Herons, and Volrath the Fallen), we see that four of them are able to take out a player the very first turn they attack, while the fifth is nearly impossible to remove. Kalemne just doesn't have the lethality or the protection to compete with that.

chaosumbreon87, It's all brewing so far, but here's one I like: Rashmi, Eternities Crafter.

GreenGhost: I made one :)

Hermits Make The Best Spies... Wait, What?

Commander / EDH sonnet666

SCORE: 1 | 6 COMMENTS | 64 VIEWS | IN 1 FOLDER

millionlittlee, I feel the same way as a Teysa, Orzhov Scion player.

Glissa is definitely a good commander (a lot of T3 commanders are), it's just that her synergies are a little hit or miss (a few great ones, like Thornbite Staff and Mindslaver, not to much middle of the road stuff), and her abilities are a little nerfed in a highly competitive meta. Her recursion strategies get messed with by the super low creature density you find in competitive metas, Mindslaver only hits one player and is too slow to be relied upon as a competitive wincon, and keeping the board clear with Thornbite Staff becomes less valuable when people are playing stax decks that don't mind if no one has creatures.

Definitely one of my favorite casual commanders though.

NarejED, Did you catch what said about Kambal before the comment sweep? I'm still really iffy about him, and I can't seem to figure out what a decklist for him should look like. Have you seen any working lists yet?

Does Titania really deserve Tier 2 status? She's Tier 1 in French where her 5/3s put down lots of pressure, but the 5/3 beat down victory in multiplayer is ambitious at best. She does have a 2-card Food Chain infinite, but every commander has a 2-card Food Chain infinite.

I've never seen a cEDH Titania deck, and I don't even see her fare that much better than your average T3 generals. There's not even a list for her in the description.

Also, Kaalia is listed under the T2 section despite being listed as a "pubstomp" (T3) commander in the description. I'm not well-versed enough in the most competitive of Kaalia lists to comment on whether or not she deserves T2 status, but even if she does the description section should be modified for consistency. Even if there's a big difference between the "pubstomp" and "competitive" versions of Kaalia, the description is confusing in that it does not make this distinction.

Also, isn't it a little preemptive to be posting commanders in Tier 2 if they're in the brewing phases (aka Rashmi)? I feel like there should be some kind of burden of proof for T2+ Commanders that goes beyond mere speculation.

Slivortal, The amount of aggro Titania generates is actually enough to take out multiple players by turn 5 to 6, and she generates massive amounts of card advantage while doing it and attacks people's lands. She's not as busted as she is in French, obviously, but she's still deserving of her T2 spot:

Optimized Titania, Protector of Argoth

Commander / EDH sonnet666

176 VIEWS | IN 1 FOLDER

Also, she's the only aggro commander other than Purphoros that's higher than T3 right now, so I think demoting her would also set a bad precedent that says that only stax and combo are viable in cEDH, which will just lead to more entrenched player bias against other commander strategies that might be competitive.

And, while it's not the main strategy, it's worth nothing that the deck does have an infinite Food Chain combo, which is practically 1.5 cards with the number of land tutors that can grab Command Beacon.

Kaalia gets brought up a lot as well, and while you are right that she's pubstomp, it does count for something that she is the best pubstomp... Idk, she's a bit controversial to be honest. Also, the description needs an update.

I've played optimized Titania before, and I just rarely feel like I keep up with any of the other T2 generals listed, let alone the T1s. Her food chain combo is pretty mediocre when Tazri just pulls it off better; the number of creature tutors in your average food chain list actually makes food chain + creature easier to find than land + food chain, especially considering that food chain is untutorable in mono-green. If easy tutoring for command beacon makes it a 1.5 card combo, then food chain is actually a ~0.75 card combo in 5c food chain, given they run every tutor they can run.

Freyalise and new Selvala for example just win the game on T4-T5, and don't rely on having one or two remaining players take them out. I'm not using this fact to propose that they're somehow T2 (they're probably still T3), but being able to take out a couple players by T5 is pretty bad when all the other T2 generals are already focused on winning the game.

Also, Stax and Combo being the only two viable strategies in T1-T2 is a feature, not a bug. Aggressive strategies scale very poorly to multiplayer where you can be dealing with 160 opposing life total (even taking out 2 opposing players with Titania requires 80 power, often evasive). I'd like to see a list like this actually do well in a T1-T2 meta, because I honestly have very big doubts.

sonnet666 I'd argue against the lethality statement.

Aurelia and Godo both grant Kalemne an extra combat step and both buff her. The T5 kill table I mentioned involved Jitte, aurelia and godo among a few other things (namely mana crypts and whatnot). The player had 3 combat steps in which Jitte gave +4/+4 after each hit. (Godo fetched evasion so blockers were a non issue)

Swinging as a 5/5, hit for 5, Pump, hit for 9, pump, next combat (attacking another player so as not to lose jitte pumps), hit for 13, pump, hit for 17 kill this player, last combat gets hit for 21. This left the least threatening player at the table with 14 commander damage and was easily finished off with aurelia and godo during those extra combats.

To me that's about as lethal as it gets.

I'm not saying Stax and Combo aren't the best strategies in cEDH, I'm just saying it's unhealthy for the list to pigeonhole itself into only those two strategies, and potentially ignore the cases where other strategies are able to compete.

As far as the Food Chain combo goes, like I said, it's not the main strategy of the deck. I think you misunderstood what I meant when I said it's almost a 1.5 combo. "1.5 combo" is a term that means a combo that is your commander (the .5) and one other card you need to get in your hand (Food Chain + Prossh, Mike & Trike, old Teferi + Knowledge Pool, etc.). The 1.5 is counting the number of cards involved. By contrast Tazri + Food Chain, while definitely more consistent, is a 2 card combo, since it's really Food Chain + Eternal Scourge or Misthollow Griffin, and Tazri is just a sink.

When I said this is almost a 1.5 combo, I meant that since you're likely to end up with Command Beacon on the battlefield or in your yard most games, drawing into Food Chain just makes you straight up win. And this deck has some heavy draw, so it's actually reasonable to expect that to happen. But like I said, it's just a back up.

Playtest the deck a little if you don't believe me.

Ohthenoises, I don't know man, that's getting into god hand territory. You need your two best creatures (Aurelia and Godo), a Sol Ring or a Mana Crypt or two Mox, Jitte, and all four land drops. There's also not a progression that lets you search out Jitte with Godo and have enough to equip it same turn or the turn you play Aurelia, without adding extra accelerants, so Jitte has to be in your hand, or you need to wait an extra turn.

It's cool, but I can't see it happening more than 5% of the time, and there aren't that many equipents that break Kalemne like that besides Jitte.

But the problem is that including Titania as part of the combo makes it a 3-part combo, not a 2-part combo like Niv+Curiosity would be.

And Command Beacon isn't a card that you can just take as having for granted. If you include all the reasonable Beacon tutors (Rotation, Map, Scrying), that's about as many for Scourge in just mono green (Chord, Sylvan, Survival). In just mono-green, you can just as easily find Scourge to go off with Chain as you can Beacon. The only thing that Beacon has going for it is that it generates infinite tokens and noncreature mana, but even that's worse than Tazri as an outlet, which would just win the game with 2 pieces that he can each tutor for more effectively than Titania can for just Beacon, let alone Chain. As you said, it's nice to have, but it's not consistent whatsoever.

And Titania has to rely on combo a lot for being "just a backup plan." The fact that her tokens are costed to their large bodies makes them extremely weak on an economy of scale, because their large bodies are essentially useless until they can bludgeon someone to death (outside of perhaps Greater Good shenanigans that are still quite slow). After playing her firsthand, I don't see how she compares to any of the generals on the T2 list. Perhaps the only big thing she has going for her is her inherent resistance to LD effects. In fact, her slight inconsistency and huge "aggro problem" almost make her a definitional T3 commander by the very rules set in the description.

As for playtesting, I've playtested all the mono-green commanders and have found competitive Titania to not only be worse than Yisan, but also Freyalise and new Selvala. She's great in French 1v1, but her scalability and lack of combos is absolutely miserable.

also traverse can fetch beacon. i find people underestimate how easy getting dillirium is. plus with snow lands and scrying sheets you filter through a lot of bad draws, and part of the combo being a land that she cna recure makes it reliable and mana efficient

So I have a question and it's going to sound really foolish but I just don't know. With Jeleva is it even necessary that it be Jeleva? Like is Jeleva storm just using her for her colors? This is coming from a guy who

So I have a question and it's going to sound really foolish but I just don't know. With Jeleva is it even necessary that it be Jeleva? Like is Jeleva storm just using her for her colors? This is coming from a guy who

Has never seen storm. Sorry for the double post.

Greater Good, Elemental Bond, Garruk's Packleader. Plus every token doubler. They're good for more than attacking. They still want to attack, and if there's a Static Orb or Ensnaring Bridge on the table you'll have to remove it, but the tokens do play an important role in the engine of the deck.

The reason I'm saying you can rely on having Beacon if you need it is that the deck is already running a toolbox set of other lands, so including land specific tutors don't detract from deck deck in the slightest. (Scapeshift, for instance, is one of the best cards in there.)

And have you playtested the deck I just posted? Because you can say that you've playtested every green commander (and I'm sure you're being honest), but if the list you tested happened to be sub-optimal (or even just tuned for French), it's going to give you a bad picture of how the deck performs.

Also, I forgot to ask, but how the hell do Freyalise and new Selvala go off on turn 4 or 5? I have not seen this, and it doesn't sound consistent.

Traverse can also fetch Scourge if you have Delirium.

Also, Scrying Sheets is miserable in cEDH. Spending 3 mana to see .25 cards is really bad when most other blue decks run ~10+ cards that see 3 cards for 1 mana. Even with mono-green's ramp, if I'm spending 3 mana at a 25% chance to draw a basic land, I'm not liking my position.

Casey4321, Yes, Jevela is mostly a placeholder. She might get played once in a while to add to the storm count. When we implement the FAQ this is going in there.

yeah thats kinda what its for. when you have open mana and need to gather card advantage while behind on gas and resources. its almost like every card in edh isn't a win more card.

Scapeshift is good, but I don't really consider it a Beacon combo tutor because you should be going off regardless of whether or not you naturally draw a Food Chain.

Freyalise goes off T5 by being played on T3 and ulting in 2 turns to draw 12 and find Cradle/Scrying to win with the other cards you draw (Shamanic/Unconscious -> 20 more cards etc etc). Selvala wins by making 5-12 mana and going infinite with Staff/Mantle/Sabertooth+Haste the turn after you play her, or drawing 12 with Life's Legacy/Greater Good and finding said cards (after playing her turn 2).

Unless Titania's also comboing out, she's not going off nearly as quickly, and she's no less disruptable. I'm not arguing that either of the above generals is T2, but I am arguing that Titania is definitely not nearly as good as any of the other generals that make the current list.

Also, if you haven't died while you're durdling around with Scrying Sheets, something's gone seriously wrong. I'd try to find a single competitive list that runs that card. Win-more cards are bad, but cards that do nothing for 3 mana are also bad. These aren't mutually exclusive.

it doesnt do nothing, it turn unused mana into (admittedly poor) card advantage. if you had no play the last turn, and are holding up a beast within, and it never needs to be resolved you can scry one and maybe strip a land off the top. it doesnt hurt anything, and helps to keep you from dead drawing. if you are running 24+ snow lands it is a good addition in a color that doesnt have abundances of draw spells as powerful as you mentioned.