Lilbrudder First of all, I like the list. It definitely takes the list in a very different direction than I've seen most of the recent Omnath builds, and makes me rethink the archetype a little. I've seen the Life's Legacy and elfball builds separately, but never thought of combining the two. Have you considered upgrading your mana base to Snow-Covered Forests+Mouth of Ronom to deal with Linvala? It's a relatively common play out of Sisay and/or hatebears, and having a tutorable noncreature way of answering it is great. I'm also not sure about Aluren's place in the decklist. It does go off with Cloudstone Curio, but lots of cards go off with Cloudstone Curio, and Aluren both gets easily disrupted by cards like Reclamation Sage, and just loses you the game if you fail to go off. It is protection for Omnath vs. spot removal, but I'm not a fan of Aluren unless you're planning on going off the same turn you play it.

I'd also recommend that you check out my Freyalise list if you get a shot; it consistently goes off T4-T5 if undisrupted as well, but it focuses more on going wide with Collective Unconscious effects as opposed to going tall with large creatures + Life's Legacy effects.

Freyalise High Tide

Commander / EDH Slivortal

SCORE: 11 | 5 COMMENTS | 1385 VIEWS | IN 2 FOLDERS

Regardless, my problem with mono-green decks is that most of them play completely at the whim of your opponents. Omnath's great if there's no fast spot removal, and Freyalise is great if there are no T1-T2 counterspells to check her, but both of them can stall pretty fast if answered, and still aren't faster than most dedicated opposing combo decks. Yisan somewhat solves this problem by being low-investment and tutoring up interaction at instant-speed, but the "infinite draw" decks don't really have that kind of interaction outside of your standard stax pieces. This (relative) slowness and inability to meaningfully interact with your opponents while advancing your own gameplan really makes it difficult for non-Yisan mono-green decks to break into T1/T2. Now, I may be overestimating T2, and going off T4/T5 with some minimal sorcery-speed disruption may be enough, but that's my biggest problem with non-Yisan decks in the archetype, and why I'm so reluctant to really call them really T1 cEDH material.

I guess my issue is partially in what defines T2. If T2 is simply defined as a "tier below T1," then I think the mono-green combo decks probably make it. I've had pretty consistent success against most of the T2 generals (Alesha, Arcum, Sisay, Azami, Daretti, Damia, Maelstrom, Meren, etc) with mono-green combo decks, but the problem is that the T1 decks are so much better. A lot of the T2 decks tend to be able to at least run certain checks against T1 decks and hold their own at the tables due to their colors and instant-speed disruption, but those things are sorely lacking in mono-green. If you define T2 as "being able to hold their own against T1 decks," things get pretty tough.

Of course, the definition of T2 also mentions "1 turn slower than T1" which happens to be the problem with most mono-green combo (T4-T5 as opposed to T3-T4), so for that reason I can see them being upped. But there are a bunch of T3 generals that have viable T4-T5 combo builds, so if we start moving decks up on that basis alone, we'd have to redefine the tier definition.

Speaking of Seton, Krosan Protector... This hasn't been brought up in forever, but we never bumped Sachi, Daughter of Seshiro out of T4, which is weird, since her shaman-ball build runs almost exactly like his druid-ball.

Slivortal, Aluren is a staple in Omnath lists because it lets you replay Omnath at instant speed after removal and not lose all your mana.

Lilbrudder, In a similar vein, why no Nim Deathmantle? Works almost as well at keeping Omnath on the board.

sonnet666 I realize this ("It is protection for Omnath vs. spot removal, but I'm not a fan of Aluren unless you're planning on going off the same turn you play it."), but Aluren's such a dangerous double-edged sword. If there are any other T1-T2 green based-generals at the table and you play it and pass, you're probably not untapping the next turn. It's just about as bad as (if not worse than) passing the turn after playing Concordant Crossroads.

Also speaking of Seton...did we somehow completely forget to bump him up to Tier 2? I remember it was a heavily discussed topic, but apparently never went anywhere.

I thought he was discussed for moving up to tier 3, not 2. Might be a Memory Lapse on my part though.

Looking through the list again, I noticed Konda, Lord of Eiganjo is tier 4, and that can't be correct. A 7 mana 3/3 indestructible in mono-white screams tier 5 to me.

Hey guys, I finished my first draft of Ezuri, Claw of Progress. I will type up the deck list tomorrow and make a post in Commander Deck Help.

I will be looking to optimize it, no budget as usual. I want to see if we can't make this guy a low Tier 2.

I think Tier 2 needs to be more clearly defined before we have any more discussion on what should and shouldn't be in it. According to the posts people are making, it's either twice or half as big as it should be.

Slivortal: Aluren can certainly backfire but it is incredibly powerful if built around even outside the Cloudstone Curio interaction. In my experience with the card very few of my opponents green decks can use the card as efficiently as I can and simply sneaking a yisan or selvala into play at my opponents end step is pretty great. It also offers board wipe protection to my combo pieces. I really like the Mouth of Ronom suggestion as creature removal is always at a premium in mono green. In other news, I am happy to look at your list and agree with your assessment of the problems that plague mono green in cEDH. I think since there are about 5-6 generals in the same stratosphere, the best course of action is to pick 1 or 2 that stand out in some meaningful way for the bottom of tier 2. Leaving them all in tier 3 is also fine, I just see the recent upgrades for omnath as massive.

sonnet666: I honesty forgot about Nim Deathmantle. While it is a great form of protection I often try sac omnath for profit before the rest of the table sees him as a threat (in the 10-15 mana range). Storing large quantities of mana is really never the goal, hes just a limited use mana battery and draw engine. I will definitely test it but dropping that card on the table feels like asking for negative attention and if I am going to alarm them I would rather have a fistful of cards in hand. Even though aggro is really not that viable in cEDH noone likes getting one shotted and I don't want people to think I am going all voltrony on them :-)

Yeva, Nature's Herald and Vedalken Orrery both also let you keep the mana on omnath.

Useful mostly for keeping him large so you can Greater Good him on your turn.

Vanilla 2/2 for 1 is tier 4? "Vanilla generals fit in here" was in your description of tier 5. is it because it's a consistent turn 1 2/2? That's not bad in commander but it's by no means useful, especially when restricting you to one colour. Zurgo Bellstriker is on your tier 5 list. Is red THAT much worse than white? Maybe this was a mistake.

Simon_Williamson: For the type of deck they play red is significantly worse. Isamaru is a voltron general. His colors provide better removal to clear away blockers and white also gives him access to the best possible equipment tutors and better auras. Bellstriker as far as I can tell is more of a burn/aggro general which is terrible in multiplayer EDH.

What do you think of yisan

Clearly he think's it's an excellent Commander, he made him tier 1. Cheap tutoring is usually competitively good.

Lilbrudder Thanks for explaining this, i just didn't think that even mono-white Voltron builds would have any use for him.

I feel that Isamaru's placement in T4 is correct; 8.5 Tails is generally the best mono-white equipment general (and thus T3), but Isamaru has a niche in being a 1-drop. He's definitely as bad as the Legends legends.

*not as bad as the Legends legends.

Nothing's that bad at least I hope, on another note we should totally do a comment reset my browser is crapping out on me when I go here.

Lilbrudder I agree with you on most points. I don't run Aluren in my Omnath list because, in my local meta, too many other players would blow me out if I tried (elfball, etc. running around).

I do think that Selvala is a HUGE boost to the deck (closest thing to Rofellos we're ever going to get. Obligatory #FreeRofellos).

The list on my profile probably needs more mana dorks to be "competitive," but it is pretty solidly in the 75% range at the moment and I think Omnath is highly underrated. When talking about mono-green commanders that aren't Yisan, I feel like Selvala and Omnath are both around the Tier 2 range in terms of power. There are also some interesting mono-green asymmetrical stax pieces like Hall of Gemstone, Vorinclex, Null Rod, that the lists could feasibly run, hurting most opponents while not doing anything to their own mana production.

thegigibeast I think that looks much better!

Happy to hear it BaronBS! If you ever have any other suggestions to improve the description I'm open to hear them! Also, just for everyone to know, I am studying in front-end/back-end development, and I was wondering if you guyz wanted me to work on some css to make this list look better/be easier to read/be custom???

Also, I am working on an FAQ that should be ready for the next big update! If you have any suggestions for questions I could include, ask them now!

Customization is always good. Some css magic would be amazing. Just try to keep it clean, both in terms of rating and aesthetics.

I really like how Ender set up the page for his Oloro Deck. Seeing something along those lines here would be sweet.

Don't do the transparent comments / background picture though. With the pages on pages of comments and discussion we have, that'll just make it hard to read.

But customization is cool, so go for it.