Kraj can steal them... Only if they are activated abilities... And by pumping them... Takea look at all the commanders in tier 1: the ones that have activated abilities can't really be used by a Kraj deck... Yes there are many combos available to him, but I would say Ezuri, Claw of Progress is better as a commander for +1/+1 counters shenanigans and combos, as you can play him infect/elfball/combo rather than pure combo.

Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite is strong, but not tier 1 worthy. Being mono-w, it will be hard to get him out early because of his high mana cost and no access to ramp. It is a good commander to support a token strategy (I would like to know in which shell you would put her), and tokens will die easily to all the wraths (think Toxic Deluge for example)... She is good in tier 3.

I'm with gigibeast on this one Kraj should stay at the tier for the reasons above as well as Elesh, as Gigi said above the tokens die easily and the fact that the mana cost is extremely high for something that dies easily, also mono white doesn't really help out your commander, if you want to go wide find a elfball commander like the mono green ezuri or mono green Omnath, unlike Elesh you don't need Omnath in the Omnath deck it's there for the draw that's how I see Omnath anyways.

As for the many damage removal in white?

why is General Tazri a tier 1 comander?

spulverin That would be because Ally Tribal is OVERPOWERED!!

On a more serious note, it is ridiculous power when combo'ed with Food Chain.

I believe what gives her another leg up on the competition is that a lot of people don't know that it's coming yet. She has a surprise factor that many other Tier 1 Commanders don't. Her combo with Food Chain though is fantastic. She works really well in the deck, and with my personal play testing, I may be as bold as to say, I like her better with Food Chain than I like Prossh, Skyraider of Kher.

There is a great deck you can view under the Tier 1 list.

@Azire, Thank you, now i understand why this could be a powerful comander :)

The fact she can fetch the damaging part of her combo, and getting to run every color is simply bonkers. That deck is hyper consistent.

Camick yes white can prevent damage but in order to prevent damage it has to resolve Elesh suffers from the same problem Zurgo Helmsmasher does, if your commander is countered it hurts the deck a lot Zurgo is tier 3 for this reason as well as Elesh, also developing a board state against a tier 1 deck is incredibly hard Elesh would generally have a rough time fending off Yisan or Zur for example, final note Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite has a giant mana cost with a normal hand it would take to probably turn 5 with ramp like Sol Ring Elesh should stay tier 3 I can't see it competing with tier 1 maybe tier 2 decks if your lucky.

Anyways so has it been decided that Selvala, Heart of the Wilds is tier 2, we had some discussion about it that suggested she should be put in tier 2 but it kinda trailed off she's not as good as yisan but still better than tier 3 because of her explosiveness.

Selvala seems very Tier 3 to me.

I could go on and on about all the great things about the other Tier 2 commanders. When it comes to Selvala, Heart of the Wilds she's a one-trick pony and slower than most Tier 2 single-shot commanders. Also mono is fine for Yissan because he's a tool-box commander with some light attrition resistance. Selvala doesn't provide card advantage so she loses against a deck that's even slightly grindy with cards such as Phyrexian Arena which honestly isn't even an auto-include for some combo decks.

There's probably a lot of other factors but all in all I find this Selvala to be equal to the last one in a 1v1 setting and worse in a multi-player setting. (Maybe there's something I don't know but most good Explorer Returned combo decks that can go off early only work with 3 or more players as far as I've seen.)

I certainly think so. And if we are looking to tweak the list I would strongly advocate that Ruric Thar be moved to Tier 2. Ruric is the only gruul general that can threaten spellslinger / storm, has the consistent ramp of an elfball shell, can consistently hate out specific strategies via Null Rod / Blood Moon, and has some reasonable 2-card combos to insta-win. A Ruric Deck made it to the finals of the most recent reddit tourney. I would say with confidence that Ruric is as-good or better than the following Tier 2 generals:

• Teeg
• Saffi
• Alesha
• Melek
• Shattergang bros
• Teneb
• SydriMarchesa

kengiczar what do you mean she doesn't provide card advantage? She literally draws cards by herself just for doing what the deck wants to do while also being half of every single combo in the deck.

Your assessment comes across to me as someone who looked at the card for 5 seconds without looking at any of the decks built around her, playing one yourself, or even ever seeing one played and fired off a first impression opinion.

@kengiczar

Selvala, Heart of the Wilds is as fast or faster than every deck on this Tier 2 list except maybe Gitrog Monster. It a turn 4 avg with a lot of turn 3's. A typical gAme goes Turn 1 dork, Turn 2 Selvala, Turn 3 cheap fatty -> draw -> make mana -> tutor another fatty, draw spell, or untapper -> go off or pass the turn and go off Turn 4.

And Selvala does provide card advantage. It says "draw a card" right there on the card. This means that if you can stick temur sabretooth with wirewood sybiote and any cheap fatty you can draw your deck.

Selvala is better than tier three in many ways she is so explosive many decks goldfish turn 4-5 wins, as Riven stated she is part of every combo and has multiple ways to go infinite, she is partly a draw engine and while not as good as tier 1 commanders she still is really good a deserves a spot in tier 2. Kengiczar from what you said it looks like you just looked at the card without seeing it in a deck or played it at all so just take a look at a deck such as RedReveng3's deck.

My bad. I've played against the new Selvala multiple times but I never bothered to counter it because when I asked "what do I do" nobody ever told me that it draws cards. This has happened multiple times.

I think I've been getting scammed by my usual group.... it's time to punish them with some Land Destruction. Or maybe just pick up their cards myself instead of asking em what they do. shrug

Sorry for my dumb comments lol.

Lesser_Gargadon I think Ruric should be tier 2 he's a giant middle finger to storm and really any deck that runs a lot of noncreature spells or any which is most decks

Selvala has this neat combo with Great Oak Guardian and a bounce effect as well for infinite mana

I agree that Selvala's a T2 deck; she's better than Omnath/Seton/Freyalise, who I think blur the lines between T2 and T3 (T2.5? Not saying we should go that route.) I think that Ruric could potentially be T2, but doesn't necessarily have to be; his power comes from the fact that noncreature spells are so big in T1 and he hits Ad Naus and Necro hard. Under the current definition (being good vs T1 decks) he probably makes it, but he ironically metas pretty poorly against the "fairer" T2 decks. I haven't played with/against an optimized build enough to make a clear-cut verdict, but I think he certainly has a shot.

Back to Selvala; people don't realize just how powerful your general making 4+ mana is. She combos with more cards than Niv-Mizzet does and costs half as much mana. People evaluating her on her draw ability have to realize that she frankly doesn't care about it. You could remove that text and she functionally would still retain most of her power. She's likely more powerful than Rashmi, who's been fine but not significantly better than the already very good UG generals. Still not sure whether Rashmi belongs in T2 or T3.

I don't see any other big changes on the list as it stands; Sharuum, Azami, and Oona have had some development with some cards in KLD, but those are too much WIP efforts to really shift their tier placement, I feel.

I agree with Slivortal. After testing the new Sharuum tech out fairly extensively since posting it on this list over the weekend I got to say its not close to tier 1 worthy. It feels about a turn slower (on average) than my Sidisi deck. Even when I get a really good hand I am extremely lucky to get a turn 3 win and the slots it is taking away from the eggs combo makes that aspect of the deck worse. Sharuum continues to be the factor holding the deck back. 6 mana is really inefficient as a combo piece, so is paying 3 colored mana after assembling a two card combo. While the improvements to Azami and Oona are more substantial I would be incredibly suprised if either passes the generic BUG combo deck test. Only time will tell...

@Lesser_Gargadon: Teneb is near the top end of Tier 2 thanks to his similarities to Karador. To say he's weaker than Ruric Thar is laughable.

NarejED speaking of high tier two, could I get a list of high tier 2 competitors so I can get an idea of possible decks that could be pushed to tier one.

Sure. Arcum Dagsson, Azami, Lady of Scrolls, Captain Sisay, Ghave, Guru of Spores, Grand Arbiter Augustin IV, Jace, Vryn's Prodigy  ^Flip, Momir Vig, Simic Visionary, Narset, Enlightened Master, Sharuum the Hegemon, Sidisi, Undead Vizier, and Teneb, the Harvester are all fairly close.

I suppose if we assume Teneb is in the exact same boonweaver 99 you are correct; but by that notion every BGW general is Tier 2. Karador doesn't even get used all that much. Teneb would be even less. The burden of full casting cost + wait a turn + have to connect + nombo with Peacekeeper (which many boonweaver lists run) means that I would assume you would only choose Teneb for some sort of aggro variant. I agree that the boonweaver 99 is tier 2 on its own... so i guess every junk and 5 cmc general could be Tier 2 if you frame the lists like that. These are the limitations of Tier lists.

Meant 5 color not cmc...

Much obliged NarejED. Glad to know good old Momir is close, I've been playing Momir for a couple years very casually I assume the toolbox list for him is simply not quite as good as yisan hence tier 2 status?