I'm aware I'm just saying that it's similar.

A lot of u/b mana combos can involve bouncing of dudes so vela from the command zone has a similar effect.

I agree she's not good enough to move tiers but I'm not dismissing her out of hand.

Wait what. Narset is in tier two and Jeleva is in tier one?? I understand storm is powerful but Narset tier two? You swing once with her and you win. How is that not tier one? Narset is so powerful she should be banned. How is she not tier one? I'm so confused.

Watason723 there have been many arguments over this same thinking that we are in agreement of her strength. The problem with narset is the consistency after mulligan rules. Many comments have discussed the pros and cons of her. Yes, she is a threat. No this doesnt force a t1. Pretty sure we have a narset arguement on every comment archive and even an arguement from september here. If there are any specific lines of thought or wish to discuss more, please do. Jaleva is currently the grixis storm leader due to her having the most relevant effect to benefit storm

"So powerful she should be banned." Lol. Can people please stop throwing around "should be banned" when it is very clear they don't understand how the EDH ban list works at all?

In normal EDH, she's been socially discouraged in her most cutthroat form to the point where she is a total non-issue. That's why this is a social format, so we don't have to ban things just because Timmy's feelings got hurt one time.

I'm not losing sleep over Narset being Tier 2. My list works just fine. At the end of the day it's a guy's opinion on the internet. It doesn't mean much or anything really because each local meta is different.

Yea, for sure Narset is strong, and she once was in tier 1. As said above, she was downed to tier 2 simply because of the mulligan change. The same thing is true for Azami, Sharuum, Arcum... All of those commanders are similar to Narset, they usually win the turn they come into play, yet they are tier 2 because of some small things that prevent them from reaching full potential. As another example, I am playing Kozilek, and most of the times I wreck tier 2 decks, yet consistency, mulligan rule and fragilness (is that even a word???) keep it from reaching full potential.

Fragility is the word you're looking for.

Fragility and inconsistency. The same effect happened to Daretti and Derevi (to a lesser degree). Losing the ability to ship back big dead cards in search of fast mana and gas leave Narset appropriately (imo) in tier 2.

Yisan, doesn't average T3 lol. I guess you could

T1 Land, Heritage Druid,T2 Land Dwynen's Elite + token, Archdruid/TitaniaT3 Any Elf + staff of domination

Then you would start singing Christmas time is here.

Normaly (assuming no crypt, sol ring)

T1 land, llanowar dorkT2 land, YisanT3 land, Yisan -> quiron, maybe another elfT4 maybe and elf, Yisan -> titaniaT5 something, Yisan -> fierce empath -> craterhoof (kill 1/2 people, probably 1 person)Alternate T5, Yisan -> fierce empath -> regal force, hope to draw concordant cross roads/lightning grieves/thousand year elixir, get sabertooth infinite mana, bounce yisan, replay use twice get visionary infinite cards play everything win.

This is how yisan actually will work 100% of the time if not handled. T3 is christmas, T4 is early crossroads/grieves/staff/umbral mantle

As a Yisan player, not really. Yisan is not an elfball deck. I have never seen a competitive deck run Heritage Druid or Dwynen's Elite. Most lists don't run Titania, Fierce Empath, or Thousand-Year Elixir. Many people (myself included) exaggerate the speed of Yisan. The deck isn't really played like a fast combo deck. You typically keep yourself open in the first few turns, then tutor out hate pieces like Scooze or Revoker to neuter the table. Then you get Bioshaman or Craterhoof and win on turn 6.

The strength of Yisan is less its speed and more its incredible consistency. I've played Yisan for ~1.5 years, and can say that I have never fizzled with Yisan. My only losses were to decks that won before me. I never had to sit on 8 lands in topdeck mode, wishing I could do something. Yisan is just too consistent that way. That's Yisan's main strength, not the fast combos.

My Yisan deck is an elfball deck, and it can have much faster starts then the Yisan deck posted here; HOWEVER, it doesn't play nearly as much hate cards and interracts even less with other decks at the table, the deck melds together so well that the deck itself is a back up plan and I can get a win a couple of turns later without yisan.

don't get me wrong you still play non elves, but only if they're combo pieces that win you the game and Heritage druid + dwynens elite or two other 1 drop elves allows for turn 2 yisan and actually wins you the game faster most of the time, there's a very good argument to run cards like heritage druid, eladamri lord of leaves (only with symbiote to bounce when ready to combo or backup after suffering dedicated hate), and even ezuri.

yes they're different decks, but they have the same clock if not mine being faster and with more recovery options then just (hope I get whisperwood/manage to get to sabertooth before they bend me over).

Here's my complaint with that.

Sure, running Yisan as elfball allows for more explosive starts. However, those shaky turn 3-4 wins aren't really consistent. Most have no room for tutors, meaning that your entire combo must be in your opener. The most consistent Yisan combo will be achieved around turn 5-6, through Craterhoof or Bioshaman. However, this combo acts completely independent of any elf tribal synergy (unless you count stuff like Priest of Titania, which is fine without running dedicated elf tribal cards).

If you remove the elfball combos and just dedicate the deck to midrange, you will not only be more consistent, but not have your combo neutered by untimely removal. Additionally, combos through Great Oak Guardian and Sabertooth are still a thing, and can be tutored with Yisan. Additionally, with more slots, you can run more silver bullets. Removing the shaky combos that are harder to chain will allow for a more resilient, consistent deck that is adopted by more Yisan players nowadays.

yeah, vela is pretty bad, i attempted to make a decklist but ran out of things to put in that were relevant. r.i.p

Hey have referred to this list several times I love it. Decided recently to go back to playing sharuum the hegemon. I went to the list you guys/gals have picked out for sharuum and it's super sweet but the wincon is blasting station sharuum and phyrexian metamorph. I have always been under the impression that the combo doesn't work unless you have a token generator like genesis chamber. Am I wrong on this or should the deck list be swapped for something else.

You use Sharuum to bring back Metamorph, then choose to keep the Metamorph Sharuum (and put the normal Sharuum in your graveyard). Then you have a trigger on the stack from your MetaSharuum that you put onto the stack to return your normal Sharuum. With this on the stack, you sac the MetaSharuum to the Blasting Station, which untapped when MetaSharuum entered the battlefield. Then you resolve MetaSharuum's trigger and are left with a Sharuum returning a Metamorph to the battlefield (ie. where you started).

Hope this helped :)

The Sharuum deck is currently being reworked to work better post mulligan change. I don't remember exactly where in the comments (would have to look up a little bit), but someone has been working on a version that uses Torrential Gearhulk and flicker spells to be able to pitch and reanimate artifacts to assemble the combo, and apparently (because I haven't had the time to test it) it is supposed to work better than the other version since mulligan change.

-----EDIT-----

I have found the list I was refering to, here it is (and if you guyz could confirm me it would be a good idea to replace it in the description I would do so, unfortunately I have no time to test right now):

Mesmeruum

Commander / EDH Tetravirulence

SCORE: 5 | 6 COMMENTS | 598 VIEWS | IN 4 FOLDERS

thegigibeast I playtested that list a bit but stopped because I heard several people say it was a turn or two slower than eggs Sharuum. I don't know if it had enough resiliency or consistency to make up for that since I only playtested a little, but unless it has improved in the week or two since I was looking at it it might not be the deck list you're looking for.

Some new commanders have been spoiled, and I think there will be an interesting new mechanic (partner). Don't know if it will be competitive, but time (and you guyz) will tell!!!

So how should we rank the paired commanders? Individually and then in pairs? If so, some of them may end up in separate tiers. I don't think Tappedout has the capability to do that.

Just did a quick test and Tappedout will put two cards with the same name in different tiers if you put them in custom categories appropriately. To avoid confusion, maybe we could make the paired one foil and the unpaired one non-foil?

Sorry for the double post.

The new UG commander seems amazing. I'd play her in a combo-control shell. She's a mana engine on your typical turns, then on your big turn, you cast a wheel or Recurring Insight, then cast Umbral Mantle and win. UG has so many artifact tutors, and a bunch of wheels. Green has a bunch of creature untappers. This commander seems super broken. I'll probably build a new deck around her.

Leinahtan: what UG commander are you referring to?

Kydele, Chosen by Kruphix

: Add to your mana pool for each card you've drawn this turn

Partner

2/3

Seems pretty strong (She's also not a part of the official spoilers, I missed her as well)

I thought of her+RW loser as a Jeskai Ascendancy team, but the Umbral Mantle combo sounds way better.

It would seem as though the blue/black and green/blue are the only playable commanders from the bunch so far. The synergy between her wheels and Silas Renn is pretty good and resusing artifacts or casting them from the yard with Entomb or Intuition seems pretty good. All of the other generals seem pretty terrible. In short BUG gets another powerful commander(s) and everyone else gets a hot steaming pile of trash. They aren't even trying to balance the commanders anymore...

Atraxa seems like she could end up doing some work