Ruhara but that takes time, over the course of many turns. I've played Voltron before ranging from hound and 8.5 to derevi to kalemne.

There is no possible way to suit up a hound to kill a player while also interacting with opponents combo pieces BEFORE they combo off.

You are talking about a turn 8-10 kill on ONE player on average. T1 combo decks are looking to go off turn 3-4.

That's a window of 4 turns where they can have their way with you.

Question, why is Tasigur, the Golden Fang tier one?

Question, why is Tasigur, the Golden Fang tier one?

It might be more interesting to ask you _person_ why you think Tasigur shouldn't be tier 1?

On the topic of Yidris: does anyone think that Seasons Past would be any good?

Get back a ton of stuff up the curve.

Yes, eww 6 mana but the value seems extreme

I'm not saying tasigur shouldn't be tier one, I'm just asking your reasoning behind placing him their.

I'm not saying tasigur shouldn't be tier one, I'm just asking your reasoning behind placing him their.

n0bunga Cool, so it may lose to the four strategies and one banned card you listed. That can be said about any deck as there will always be something that can defeat whatever strategy you might think up.

The assumption that a deck is "bad" simply because the absolute-top-tier cards exist is a fallacy in game theory itself. If that assumption were actually true then there would only be one commander in teir 1.

As it stands, every tier 1 commander can be defeated by at least one commander of tier 3 or lower.

You still haven't addressed the speed issue Rurara_Rahura.

How is Hound winning on turn 3-4 while also interacting to prevent opponents from winning on those turns?

I mean I know how Yisan and Stax decks are able to win on later turns but how is a Voltron commander doing that?

It just doesn't seem plausible. Yisan interacts at instant speed by tutoring utility creatures, Stax provide resource denial, but if you are casting Fireshrieker and equipping it I can assume you're not playing resource denial or interacting at instant speed.

Also, n0bunga was clearly talking about duel commander when he mentioned emrakul. In that format emrakul IS legal.

Really would love the blue magus next year to be Magus of the Upheavel.

Wishes that will never come true aside, can we get a comment reset? Takes about fifteen seconds to get from the top of the page to the bottom. And yes, there's the page down button, but it's still a lot.

Ohthenoises & n0bunga The dog wins through growth.

I realize that I upset "the entire community" by claiming that a fast, mono-white commander could somehow compete in the "sideshow of impossible standards" that is the discussion of EDH, but then these discussions always assume that every player plays perfectly and has all the cards they need in their opening hand.

The dog either wins hard or loses hard; I won't just assume it will win every time but I also know it will not lose every time.

So I'm bringing Leovold to my LGS' SCG night tonight (obviously this week it's commander),

And I don't actually own a city of brass (only card in the list I don't have that I bothered to proxy up).

I have a couple extra gaea's cradles lying around, but I haven't seen any cradles in any of the leovold lists I've seen. Should I toss one in? Or just toss in another basic? I know the list likes to avoid tapped lands, and cradle might be too slow.

Would appreciate an answer on this before like 6 if anyone feels like chiming in.

All I can envision is Hound finally swinging for lethal on turn 6-7 and then in response to damage someone just wins.

Growth is a core-strategy that's been around since the game was invented. You turn the 2/2 into a larger creature and deal commander damage; I really shouldn't have to explain that.

Mono-white traditionally is not impervious to counter and removal but Isamaru is guaranteed to be out on turn 1 and your removal has to get around coloured-protection and hexproof. Then there's the fact that it's attacking every turn and until the mid-game, anyone that attacks Isamaru's player will most likely be open to an attack from someone else.

So, you can spend your opening resources on Isamaru, or you can consider the other four-plus decks that are in play.

"In response to equip I Swords/path/etc"

GG?

Growth isn't a way to kill every player.

Again, you STILL haven't answered my concerns of speed and interaction.

At this point I'm ready to just dismiss you as a troll and move on because this is getting rediculous.

You keep saying the same thing and it doesn't answer ANY of the concerns presented by others here....

I did answer you: "Mono-white traditionally is not impervious to counter and removal", "...it's attacking every turn", "...Either wins hard or loses hard".

How does that not answer your question?

Because I'm asking how you are winning on T4-5 with Voltron. None of your answers cover this question. I would love an explanation of how you can deal 63 damage to 3 opponents that early on.

You also don't cover how you are able to interact with your opponents to prevent them from winning the game that early. "Pillow fort elements" doesn't cover it in the slightest because you don't give any inclination as to what you mean.

It doesn't prevent other players from winning.. it's entirely combat. It can defeat someone by turn 5 but it's simply by adding up the numbers, and in multiplayer it comes down to whether the dog is a bigger threat than whatever else is in play.

Having an unpopular opinion isn't grounds for calling me a troll, in any case. Didn't you complete the comment tutorial?

Oh, also it's not my deck. Go back and read the comments for that information.

Here's an example: Yisan wins through a varied network of combos that result in infinite mana which also usually results in infinite power and toughness. Most of these combos can be tutored using Yisan.

Since going up the verse chain can take time we run cards like Winter Orb/Tangle Wire to slow down opponents or Reclamation Sage/Phyrexian Revoker to interact early in with our opponents.

I'm not calling you a troll for your opinion haha.

I said I was willing to dismiss you as a troll because you keep saying the same thing over and over and never actually answering ANY of the questions presented to you.

For example: your answer on how you can beat 3 opponents is "growth"? Really?

Ok, so your friend CAN kill someone by turn 5. What about the other 2? Again, we have been asking how you deal with 3 people not 1

" ...in multiplayer it comes down to whether the dog is a bigger threat than whatever else is in play."

Given your Yisan scenario most players would want the dog to remain in play as Yisan is a bigger threat.

I never said it would beat three opponents on it's own, but it has won many multi-player games through in-game politics.

n0bunga You know the obvious answer to "what if every opponent is god" would be "Then it loses to god".

If you keep trying scenarios then eventually you'll find one that defeats the deck in question (which I hinted at earlier when I said "All the tier-1 commanders can be defeated by at least one tier-3 or lower"). Players just aren't interested in understanding the game anymore; All they seem to care about is whether a given deck can win before anyone gets a chance to play.

Lol my Yisan example was to give you an example of how to answer the questions presented to you.

Meh, moving on.

Yidris; does his ability stack if you deal combat damage more than once in a turn?